Diesel - umm how does it get there?

**Tank** · 11th August 2008, 09:36

I know that this is probably a stupid question - but being totally ignorant of trucks fueling systems I thought Id put the question out there to see if someone can help me.

Since the new Bus station went in at Albany I have noticed a HUGE increase in the amount of diesel I see on the roads - normally splashed on roundabouts etc where tight'ish turns are made.

Now - (esp with the price of fuel) - I dont see cars spilling fuel everywhere - so why do trucks / buses?

Do they have a 'open' fuel system (a concept that makes no sense to me) - or is it that drivers always lose the cap for the tank and drive without it?

Sorry for the stupid question (that probably has a really logical answer) - Im just curious because its a issue for people out their on bikes (and cages for the larger spills), and if its due to negligence Im going to start *555'ing and making complaints to the bus company (I often see the busses dropping the crap).

**Swoop** · 11th August 2008, 09:52

I wonder what their management policy is, regarding fuelling.
Are they told to keep the tank as full as possible? Refuel in the morning to last the entire day??
Who knows.

Reading about aviation fuel policies...
Companies are forcing aircraft to fly with minimal fuel loadings to make the journey. Emergency diverts are becoming more common because of this. Simple headwinds or unexpected delays can become a critical situation...

**Mikkel** · 11th August 2008, 10:04

One misconception I have come across is that many people mistakenly assume that all oil spillt on the road (you know patch with swirly colouring if it start raining) is being diesel. Gasoline and other oils will look exactly the same and will also be slippery...

So when people are saying diesel patch - it might just as well be another oil.

With that out of the way - I've heard people talk about fuel trucks having nooks and crannies where small amounts of excess oil can remain dripping off hoses and such. If it starts raining these small compartments will overflow and you'll get spillage typically in corners and at intersections where lateral g-forces are the biggest.

**F5 Dave** · 11th August 2008, 10:39

Living in the hilly 'burbs of the Hutt 2 or 3 times a month there is major trails of diesel spilt all over the roads. It follows the bus routes & can be seen coming out of the low slung gas caps around steep corners. With the price of Gas you'd think they'd have modified the caps so they seal & run breathers way up high. But no & we the road user suffers + we the rates payers have to pay the chap from the council to come around & cement dust the spills.

I've rung the Police about it & they weren't interested

(no one was speeding) & I've rung the local rag & the reporter said he'd been asked to do stories before so must get around to it. I told him there was picture evidence today. Never saw anything.

Pity Diesel isn't that flammable else a careless match or so could clean up the mess & might get the bus company a bit more concerned.

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th August 2008, 10:52

It happens because often the filler cap is not much above the level of fuel when the tank is full, and the filler pipe is at a very shallow angle. This is a design issue rather than a failing of a diesel system per se. If the pipe was close to vertical and the cap at least a foot above the tank, spills would be rare.

**Big Dave** · 11th August 2008, 10:59

Plus worn and imperfectly fitting caps on high milage vehicles + centrifugal force and it's all over rover.

**smokeyging** · 11th August 2008, 11:09

At a guess the driver has forgot to put his fuelcap on. i drive trucks and i havent seen any diesel come out with the cap on, not much different to a car really.

**barty5** · 11th August 2008, 11:12

wouldnt supprise me if its just leaking fuel lines. given the maintenace i was told about by one drive when his bus broke down out side my work shop was only running one fan belt instead of the 3 that were able to be fitted to keep costs down is what he told me as it was the 2nd time i to weeks it had happened. Just enough to keep them running.

**slofox** · 11th August 2008, 11:17

Originally Posted by Mikkel

One misconception I have come across is that many people mistakenly assume that all oil spillt on the road (you know patch with swirly colouring if it start raining) is being diesel. Gasoline and other oils will look exactly the same and will also be slippery...

So when people are saying diesel patch - it might just as well be another oil.

Last one I saw (last week in Hamilton) was definitely a diesel spill cause I could SMELL it.......
I have to agree it is a major pain.......

**Grub** · 11th August 2008, 11:29

Originally Posted by Swoop

Reading about aviation fuel policies...
Companies are forcing aircraft to fly with minimal fuel loadings to make the journey. Emergency diverts are becoming more common because of this. Simple headwinds or unexpected delays can become a critical situation...

It makes a good story but not really 100% true. In aircraft, weight is everything. Every pound of extra weight carried requires a higher fuel burn to overcome its extra gravity. The differences are very apparent and very real. There's no point in carrying dead weight around so aircraft have always carried just enough to do the job. But they don't carry less just for the sake of it. Aircraft fuelling is mandated worldwide and the rules haven't changed in decades. Aircraft are not allowed to leave the blocks without ...

1) Flight Fuel: the amount to get from A to B, plus
2) Alternate Fuel: the flight plan must specify an Alternate airfield which that aircraft (at that weight) is licensed to use, plus
3) Contingency: Fly after that for 45mins at normal cruising speed, plus finally an extra buffer
4) On the ground: "The aircraft must carry enough fuel to complete the flight and land with enough for 45mins flight at normal cruise". You don't get to choose and combine 3) and 4). When the aircraft has stopped on the ground, there still has to be 45 mins in the tanks, no matter where you've been.

So the fuel to do that has to be in the tanks when you leave. Taking less doesn't happen.

The volume of air traffic continues to increase exponentially to a point where, on a normal day, it is almost at capacity. What does happen, especially in the states, is that the weather turns to shit and Air Traffic Control can't cope with the gridlock in the air. Arrivals back up in the vertical holding "stacks". So the airport may be open meaning the flight doesn't have to divert. The "Alternate" airport isn't that far away meaning the extra fuel to get there wasn't much anyway, possibly only 15mins worth and the same weather is probably happening there. So they sit in the stack being told that the delays won't be that bad ... until maybe they are.

If that was the case then useable fuel remaining over the destination airport is 15min (alternate) + 45min (reserve) = 1hr 00min. In extraordinary circumstances the aircraft is forced to make an emergency diversion by a combination of unforecast headwinds, airport bad weather and aerial gridlock but not by some misguided money saving procedure.

**Swoop** · 11th August 2008, 11:36

Originally Posted by Grub

There's no point in carrying dead weight around so aircraft have always carried just enough to do the job.

Not always. Wings of the nation have "filled up" in cheaper places like Singapore, and hauled gas down here to save expenses. Business practice, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Grub

So the fuel to do that has to be in the tanks when you leave. Taking less doesn't happen.

Hmm. Talking to a 747 driver, it happens much more than you would think...
The issue is that pilots are not being given the option by some operators.

**NOMIS** · 11th August 2008, 12:09

Another one you see that people mistake for diesel is the stock trucks, wankers turn there taps on and let all the piss and shit out that the tanks catch and goes all over country road's. Normally they aim onto ditches but doesnt work. keep a eye out for tyre marks off the road thats a tell tale sign that they been doing that.

If you ever see a stock truck leaking "water" thats what it is it saves them $$ my tipping at a efulent plant. Take down there rego plate and all info you can get and go to the police this is highly illegal and is just as bad if not worse as diesel coro loop bad for this but i never done it on my bike only in the car a few times