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Thread: Riding in a Cagers blindspot

  1. #46
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    24th June 2004 - 17:27
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    For a variety of reasons I have been forced to spend a lot of time commuting in our cars lately. While stuck in traffic I have observed a lot of riders filtering and the behavior of both myself and my fellow motorists. My observations are:

    Blind spots.
    All bikes (and full face helmets) and other vehicles have blind spots big enough to hide a full sized FWD. Turning your head is not only a good idea but should be essential BUT doing so does NOT guarantee that there is nothing in you blind spot.

    When riding a bike with clipons etc most riders will find it very difficult to turn their heads enough to cover that spot. In fact on some bikes it’s had to see traffic coming from the left at intersections

    Cars have their own issues. Cars with overstuffed side bolsters at the top of the seat make if really difficult to turn enough to cover the spot. Other cars have badly positioned A and B pillars which makes it even worse.

    Couple bad seat design, poor pillar location and an older driver and you have a recipe for disaster for someone passing with out making allowances.

    Note: I found that even after checking all my mirrors AND turning my head I could loose a full sized Mitsi Pajero in the blind spot on my Magna SW. I could not believe it was possible but it is!

    Mirrors.
    In heavy traffic, your following distance is really the only thing you can control and most of the activity is happening up front. Indeed, what is happening in front of you is determining the speed and safety of your vehicle so it is utterly reasonable to concentrate on the area.

    An attentive driver (in traffic) will consciously check their mirrors (say) every 20 seconds? (rough guess)

    Most drivers seem to give priority to centre mirror and drivers side wing mirror.

    The motorways around Wellington and not straight and even when they ARE people do not travel line a stern. Ie some are more to the left and some are more to the right and some people drive very large vehicles wider than my Starlets field of rearward vision, I’m generally lucky to get a clear view of more than 6 vehicles behind me. (lets say 50M)

    Note: This is in heavy traffic crawling at rush hour OK. Not the usual 85kph slog.

    Filtering
    How fast do you ride when filtering?

    Lets say 50kph in slow moving to stopped traffic. That is (correct me if my maths is wrong here guys) 13.8 Meters per second. That means you will cover the 50M I can see in 3.6 seconds.

    Even if I could see 200M you would travel that in 14.5 seconds. That’s less than the period between mirror scans. Most people will not know you are there because you are not visible! (they can only pick you up from when you appear from around the bend / from behind the Van etc to when you enter the blind spot.

    Think about it. I check my mirrors. No bike. Heck my mirrors again 15 sec’s later, no bike and yet a bike could easily be in my blind spot!

    Note: 50kph differential between traffic is quite high, normally it would be lower I think.

    Changing Lane
    Heavy traffic is difficult. The fact is people DO need to change lanes to get to off ramps. It can’t be helped. In heavy traffic, IF a lane change opportunity opens up (in the direction you need to go) you will take it. You will check your mirrors, you may turn you head but that does not means you will see anyone in your blind spot. But you will change lane once you have committed to the maneuver unless some compelling event forces you to stop.

    Conclusions.
    If you do the maths and study how you yourself drive, you will realize that if you filter through traffic you need to assume everyone in front of you has no idea you are there. They are looking, they are not bad drivers, they are human beings in a high stress environment doing their best but there is a REALLY high chance that they will NOT see you.

  2. #47
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    8th December 2004 - 11:00
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    As I general rule of thumb I always avoid riding next to any vehicle if I believe I'm in their blind spot (see the "have you ever" thread as to my reason why). I agree with the comments made here so far, assume the worst and you won't get any nasty shocks.

    Another rule I have (off topic a bit) is that I always avoid pulling up to a junction without a cage, or preferably a lorry next to me. When I pull out I like to keep beside the other vehicle, using them as a shield to protect me. Sounds a little weird doesn't it? I got taught this by a bikey cop while on my advanced riders course back in the UK. A useful, potentially life saving tip I guess.
    This weeks international insult is in Malayalam:

    Thavalayolee
    You Frog Fucker

  3. #48
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    8th November 2004 - 11:00
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    Us 'older' bikers tend to do all sorts of safety-related manoeuvres without actually being conscious of doing them. Part of the reason we got to be older bikers?? Is there a book or website whatever that lists all the little things that increase our chances?
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  4. #49
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    8th December 2004 - 11:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS
    Us 'older' bikers tend to do all sorts of safety-related manoeuvres without actually being conscious of doing them. Part of the reason we got to be older bikers?? Is there a book or website whatever that lists all the little things that increase our chances?
    Yes - I'm buggered if I can remember what it's called though, but OAB has a copy of it at the moment and Motomail sell it.

    R1Aaron - did you lend it to OAB?
    This weeks international insult is in Malayalam:

    Thavalayolee
    You Frog Fucker

  5. #50
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    13th January 2005 - 11:00
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    I had someone pull onto me yesterday. They passed underneath me, then the traffic slowed, so I passed them again, then they indicated while moving across. I hit the horn as fast as I could, then the driver swerved back a few inches from me.. All over too quickly and could have been messy.. So many don't check at all, or often enough. You just have to assume never, and be ready for it.. Like has been said before, ride like your invisable (but this theory doesn't work going past cops. They often see you..).

    As for Paul in NZ, about the filtering facts etc, very interesting about the calculating.. I've always made it a rule to go no faster than 20kph, regardless if the traffic is moving or not, all depending of course. I rode past 3 cops on Friday doing this, and none gave me any jip whatsoever, but interesting to figure out how doing 50 is really that quick.. I'm happy to stick to 20 and only when I want to be passing..

  6. #51
    Keeping an eye on the driver is a good giveaway,but you can't give it to some people.Coming down the Mway a few days ago,not peak hour,but quite a few cars around - I spot a bike way back,he's really cutting the traffic,making big exagerated swoops to change lanes and cut up traffic,having fun.I'm in the middle lane just getting past a slower vehicle as the bike nears me - in front of me is all clear,I turn my head to look out my left mirror to judge when it's safe to move over to the left lane and I see the bike heading for the gap! dick head,I have indicated by this time and he has to swerve to the otherside.He probably thought ''what a wanker in the Pajero'' but my intentions were clear,if he was looking at what I was doing he wouldn't of aimed for a disapearing gap.It was 250 sports bike,enjoying the thrill of the learning curve,hope he gets through it ok.

    On the same subject - heading south in the mighty Paj on sunday,lot's of bikes heading south for some get together I presume - not a good look guys,I don't think the cars enjoyed being buzzed by bikes every few minutes,every passing manouver exagerated and close to dangerous.If you thought they were all jealous thinking they wished they could be on a bike enjoying themselves,I don't think so - I'm glad I wasn't on my bike getting tarred with your brush.
    In and out of jobs, running free
    Waging war with society

  7. #52
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    24th January 2005 - 15:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by toads
    I have found a few cage drivers look straight at me and then try to shove me off the road, but the blind spot issue is something all motorists have to contend with, I tend to use my mirrors far too often and not turn my head, as you say it's something we should all do!
    LOVE the look straight at the biker and drive in front of him anyway manoeuvre

    I use mirrors and turn head but you've gotta be quick - I arse-ended a car through not being sharpish on looking forward again.

    I get seriously annoyed with the guys coming out of side roads in front of you that stare at you for three to six seconds and then decide to pull out into your lane (then come to a full stop, select neutral, reselect first and accelerate away at 1/4 throttle). Even more "fun" when they do it in a truck-and-trailer - the puzzlement you get from them when you go past them with one finger extended is a joy to behold.

    I've had very few problems with people merging in front of me as I'm generally expecting them and I automatically assume that (as cagers) they have their heads up their fundamentals, it's those who come past from behind me then lane switch in front of me that I've had the most problems with

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