Discussion on Mentor Programme

[enigma51]

Mate sorry I gotta disagree with ya here --but only in that the two are NOT mutually exclusive.
Atitude and decent skillsets combined can keep ya alive
Ya might be riding totally defensively but theres times you need to KNOW certain aspects of bike riding.

And how is the mentors going to prepare you for that different to anyone else?

On the one side (and this going to make him angry and hate me) you have a someone that has crashed more bikes on the road than i have owned all my life. (Im no angel i have crashed as well)

People who have lost the license on more than one occasion


and the flip side
you have someone that is still only a noob but because he goes to bronze meeting is all of sudden a mentor.

Its a joke there is no need for it. If i want advice i will ask those i feel can give me the best advice for that issue i have. Hell i will even take advice if its given without asking

[enigma51]

I also pointed out that it wasn't 'written out' of what is expected of mentors. I personally expect that the mentors will find a way of imparting good attitude and advice, along with practical riding sessions with any person that asks for help. Not every pairing will be sucessful, because a certain amount of what takes place will depend on the raport (sp) between the individuals. With plenty of choice available to the mentoree, they will find the help that works for them.
Incidently, as nominator of some of the mentors, I refrain from 'voting' for any of them. I've helped put them in front of the members - for the member's approval.

So how many favours have you cashed in already?

[James Deuce]

Mate sorry I gotta disagree with ya here --but only in that the two are NOT mutually exclusive.
Atitude and decent skillsets combined can keep ya alive
Ya might be riding totally defensively but theres times you need to KNOW certain aspects of bike riding.

You have to have the right attitude in the first instance to learn anything. It has been demonstrated repeatedly, and fatally, over and over again that a lot of people aren't interested in developing their skill base, because they are already the "shiznit" and have nothing to learn.

Attitude is everything. With the correct attitude you can gather and discard as many skills as you require.

This is precisely why I don't want to be involved. There's too much energy expended in interpretation and over reactions to simple comments.

Part of me is banging it's head on the desk right now, frustrated that you can't see that you've said exactly the same thing I did.

Instead you've pigeon-holed me, belittled me, and decided to publicly point out that I'm old, slow, stupid, and pointless. You've not spent two minutes on the road with me, but I'm a hopeless nana in your mind.

"Oi!", you'll say, "I didn't say that!"

And so it goes.

Pointless fights generated by thoughtless reactions to simple comments.

If you want to run a training scheme, get your "I" endorsement, and run a school out of Millar's on the weekends.

Teaching skills is a formal or informal instruction session. Mentoring is simply being around and behaving like a genuine human being and possibly even a friend if you get it right.

[Swoop]

By SMC do you mean AMCC? Aren't they just a bunch of fellas who hand out race licenses?

SMC means Scooter and Motorcycle club (of Auckland Uni). Completely different from AMCC.

4. Staying alive is an attitude, not a skillset. We haven't had any "decent" deaths or near-fatal accidents to remind people of their mortality recently. I think that's because most of you pussies stop riding when it's a little bit damp or cold, leaving those with an attitude and skillset valid for sharing the road with other road users to enjoy themselves. Come Summer and we'll be back to listening to stories of self-wrought carnage.

One of the best recent comments and totally over the heads of most.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

I personally expect that the mentors will find a way of imparting good attitude and advice, along with practical riding sessions with any person that asks for help.

The thing is and has been pointed out the ones that ask for help will most likely be ones the that truly want it...(and most likely need it) the ones that don't ask are the ones that are full of testosterone and probably wouldn't take the advice if it was given to him on a platter... but need it hmmm sounds familiar...

I agree with the attitude statements being very important (for both mentor and mentoree) and as I have said before preventing a newbie from getting into a situation... before situation happens is an attitude thing... ie; getting them to a cut off 6 million miles per second so we are at a respectable speed, instead of a blur... and then binning and and asking wtf it worked yesterday at that speed... Attitude to actually look at their surroundings, ahead, behind, and to take responsibility for their actions in traffic that sometimes you can sneak up on cars and they aren't aware that you are there till its to late...

Simple things like your left hand cornering and your head over the centre line and worse a corner cut... I have seen so called experienced riders do that on blind corners scrapping pegs...

But I believe that the young ones that are riding round like a rocket boaster won't ask for a mentor any way. It will most likely the ones that have the right attitude (per say) anyway...

The mentor will be able to tell with in the first 5 or 10 minutes of riding with mentoree what their attitude is.

[Kickaha]

Popularity contest? What's the problem with someone wanting to be popular for helping others?

A popularity contest is exactly whats happening with some of the nominations and it isn't a good thing

Just because a particular person is popular with others doesn't mean they're able to help them in the way that they need

[Jantar]

I also find it somewhat disturbing that of the nominated mentors only one has come forward in this thread to say that addressing the issue of 'attitude towards motorcycling' will be an integral part of her method.

MyGSXF has my support at least.

(For what it's worth.)

You may have missed the point that before anyone is finally confirmed as a mentor they must convince the Senior Mentor for their region, and the mentor admins, that they meet the requirements laid down in the very first thread announcing the Mentor Programme. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=79923

The very first non-negotiable item is: Good Attitude to riding and mentoring

[The Stranger:Me]

And how is the mentors going to prepare you for that different to anyone else?

On the one side (and this going to make him angry and hate me) you have a someone that has crashed more bikes on the road than i have owned all my life. (Im no angel i have crashed as well)

People who have lost the license on more than one occasion


and the flip side
you have someone that is still only a noob but because he goes to bronze meeting is all of sudden a mentor.

Its a joke there is no need for it. If i want advice i will ask those i feel can give me the best advice for that issue i have. Hell i will even take advice if its given without asking

You seem to be very passionate there enigma.
I can't say I am following what you are saying there 100%, but, if I read you right you are still querying the need for the scheme in its entirety and saying you are happy or would rather seek advise where you see fit.
Am I right?

On the assumption that I am for now.

I find it difficult to accept that you are a noob. You are a pretty bloody good rider for a noob, if you are and bloody well done. You are obviously qualified to judge whom you should listen to and who you shouldn't - you have sufficient experience to make that decision.

However others (note the plural) have binned whilst at training sessions where they were instructed to carry out an exercise but not given the necessary information to safely perform the exercise - until after the bin.
At other times some of the exercises have been downright dangerous. I will refrain from going into further detail, however the mods are only too well aware due the the complaints laid.
But the fact that noobs turn up to these training sessions and blindly put themselves at risk suggests they are perhaps not as savvy as yourself and could use some assistance in selecting their mentor.

As to the BRONZ comment, I assume you are referring to RRRS.
I am uncertain to whom you refer when you mention "goes to bronze meeting" but it would appear that you have been misinformed.
No one (at least from the Auckland) has been nominated on the basis of having attended an RRRS or BRONZ course.
Three have however been conducting these courses for at least a couple of years now.

[Disco Dan]

A popularity contest is exactly whats happening with some of the nominations and it isn't a good thing

Just because a particular person is popular with others doesn't mean they're able to help them in the way that they need

+1 Shame really.

[Joni]

+1 Shame really.

Yes... it saddens me, because lots of time has been put into this...

I just hope to God that Jantar, MT, Virago and who ever makes the final decision sees through all the crap... popularity does not mean a person will make a good mentor.

[Katman]

The very first non-negotiable item is: Good Attitude to riding and mentoring

Thanks for that Jantar.

I missed that in the first reading. I'm also somewhat reassured by the fact that it's the first item on that list.

[chanceyy]

Popularity should have absolutely nothing to do with it. I have only gotten any form of mentoring from those who I feel can offer me good advice & have the ability to communicate with me.

there are those who can ride extremely well, & yet I would not seek any mentoring from them for a variety of reasons.

I have only posted a comment in those threads of the ppl whom I have actually received instruction from or would like to receive some mentoring from. As they are the only ones who interest me.

I have never ridden with the rest, regardless of their personality I am not in a position to comment if they would make good mentors or not.

However if anyone has any concerns on a persons ability a pm to Jantar with specific concerns (leave out the emotion) will help them with their decisions.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

The very first non-negotiable item is: Good Attitude to riding and mentoring

Kinda why I didn't get into the attitude discussion... though I have now ... :

[Disco Dan]

Yes... it saddens me, because lots of time has been put into this...

I just hope to God that Jantar, MT, Virago and who ever makes the final decision sees through all the crap... popularity does not mean a person will make a good mentor.

A prime example of the attitude is when I started up AWNMR - I then got KB Mentors together, we spent hours discussing and planning and organising etc and we still got shotdown. The whole point of it was that there was a 'panel' of mentors whom rotated each week, each coming from a different background of riding experience to give a complete picture to students.

I laugh now that one person is running it, putting the original concept to shame and who suffers? ...the new riders going along.

I do hope the Mentor scheme ends up working out well, too late for the AWNMR but not for it's current attendees.

[MadDuck]

+1 Shame really.

From what i have read and understand YOU can always nominate someone you feel is not going for a popularity contest.....so why not do it? For me the only people I would nominate no longer particpate to this forum.

Yes... it saddens me, because lots of time has been put into this...

I am sure there has been a heck of a lot of time put into this before it was released. In a perfect world everyone would agree with everything and we would all walk around like a bunch of well trained zombies.

BUT it is an open forum and people are entitled to have their opinions be it for or against.