Discussion on Mentor Programme

**MSTRS:Me** · 23rd August 2008, 13:44

Originally Posted by Ixion

Quite seriuously, that is a very important thing to teach any newbie. Preferably, off road, it's softer and less other moving objects.

.....

Every newbie SHOULD learn how to crash. Just don't do it on the public road.

Refer Frosty for that sort of instruction....he has a thread on it.

**Morcs** · 24th August 2008, 13:18

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

NO I wanna be a mentor - I have more experience than Morcs in what not to do.

I know more people on KB than he does.

I am far sexier than him.

You need adequate minority representation, I only see honkies being nominated, vere is ze bleckman??

I will accept any sexy girl as my mentoree, not only single ones.

I can piss 10 meters straight standing up.

(Image removed)

P.S: Don't see why this thread isn't closed... dunno what more shit there is to talk.

Yeah bro, you have my nomination

Originally Posted by Ixion

In which respect Mr Morc's point is valid: someone who has "been there" is probably going to have a better chance of getting out of it next time. At least they know what DIDN'T work. A hell of a lot of riders crash when they don't need to simply because when the shit hits the fan they either panic or freeze up. The typical reaction is just to hit the brakes and pray, usually NOT the best reaction.

Exactly my point, and very well put Les.
You and me must have at least 20 IQ points on everyone else.

**dpex** · 24th August 2008, 17:48

I believe the idea is sound but that the method of introduction and execution is flawed.

It is no longer possible for any formal group (read KB) to offer any level of 'all-care-no-responsibility' anything.

These days with OSH rules as they are, one has to print a disclaimer for an earlier disclaimer.

Remember the lady who got turned over for a peddle-biker who got hurt/killed (can't remember the detail). But despite the cautiosnshe took, coupled to the disclaimer asserting she was simply arranging things from the goodness of her heart, the arseholes in Wellington chose to tag her.

I believe that if any 'authority' from KB introduces mentor A, to the 'about-to-be' mentored B, they run the risk of being seen as a formal agency.

And just imagine. B takes a fall and blames A. OSH assert KB introduced and, to a level, sanctified A's ability as a mentor. Thus KB stand in the 'blame' line (these days there has always got to be someone to blame other than the transgressor) and take the fall...Sure, no conviction may ensue, but I'd hate to be bearing the defence costs.

I would have thought a better process would be keep everything quite informal.

B asks for a mentor. KB know of a few guys who might mentor. They give B a list of names of folk who might know a person prepared to mentor. B talks with some on the list and finds some average dude (whom KB know to be a competent rider) selects a name and asks the question. 'Will you mentor me?'

In that fashion everybody is just friends helping friends.

Now put a friend-helping-a-friend in American society.

I'm perpetually surprised that anyone in America has a friend since, at any time a friend can sue a friend for causing gas, resulting from a baked-bean sandwich, which caused the guy to fart and fill his breeks while bending over to receive a blessing from the Pope!

Muldoon may have been an complete control-freak, arsehole, but ACC rocks.

But the OSH game is as close to one-on-one American litigation as it gets, except one of the players has a shit-load more money than the other.

I think the mentoring idea is great. I just think you guys need to think your way through the worst-case scenarios and take them as best-case before you move.

(Snip)

**The Stranger:Me** · 24th August 2008, 18:18

Originally Posted by dpex

Remember the lady who got turned over for a peddle-biker who got hurt/killed (can't remember the detail). But despite the cautiosnshe took, coupled to the disclaimer asserting she was simply arranging things from the goodness of her heart, the arseholes in Wellington chose to tag her.

As I recall she had put in print to the entrants that the roads would be closed to other traffic. They weren't. This was no small oversight. The cyclist were entitled to believe that the roads were closed and behaved accordingly. I can dig all care and no responsibility, but I don't think that qualifies as all care, so don't agree with the no responsibility defence.

Originally Posted by dpex

And just imagine. B takes a fall and blames A. OSH assert KB introduced and, to a level, sanctified A's ability as a mentor. Thus KB stand in the 'blame' line (these days there has always got to be someone to blame other than the transgressor) and take the fall...Sure, no conviction may ensue, but I'd hate to be bearing the defence costs.

OSH administer the Health and Safety in Employment act.
Unless there have been recent changes in the Health and Safety in Employment act.
There is no employment and no reward so the HSE does not apply.

**NighthawkNZ:Me** · 24th August 2008, 18:30

Originally Posted by dpex

Muldoon may have been an complete control-freak, arsehole, but ACC rocks.

I personally fucken hate ACC... I pay acc and then pay health insurance... therefore ACC will never pay me if I have a mishap... per robberey... simply because I have the that insurance...

I disagree with the whole concept of it especially since I am forced to pay it when I don't won't it... err rant over...

Anyway the mentor program and OSH, ACC, etc.

Since no monetories are handed over for service, there are no guarantees that the mentor will make you a better rider, OSH really can't do anything here as KB is not a formal organisation, club or the likes and is considered as friends giving friends advise.

The Mentors & Senior mentors understand where everyone is coming from both for and against the concept. As I have stated before both the LTSA and the AA, believer there is a gap in the system from when a new rider gets their learners till the next stage... If the mentor program can help fill the gap then and even save one life during the early stage the great.

The whole idea is not new, it is a revamped concept that got out of hand, and while it worked to a degree, some of the choosen mentors were well not really mentoring...

A mentor is not there to teach out right rather to guide, maybe a few pointers & and tips & tricks... like riding in the wind... there are a few tricks experieced bikers do that newbie wouldn't know about... riding a gravel on a sports bike... a few more tricks and tips and pointers for the newbie to learn. Riding in the rain, a few more... I have also said this before if the newbie is doing everything right then a simple well done can go a long way.

If doing a few things that could cause strife, point them out as well. The trick as a mentor is to guide them to doing it a better way to there riding style...

There has been suggestions that the track would help, it would help a few that have the style of riding, and help them if they wanted to go racing, not every one wants that, not everyone needs that.

I guess I have been mentoring my partner now for a year, most rides now I don't need to say anything unless she fucks up...

just when we pull up I look to see if she is smiling and if so I give the thumbs up.

**SixPackBack** · 24th August 2008, 18:53

This is starting to look like a whitewash-what gives?........genuine concerns written in a thoughtful manner end up in PD. Why forward prospective mentors if any negative feedback is removed from threads removing discussion?......

**The Stranger:Me** · 24th August 2008, 19:00

Originally Posted by SixPackBack

10 meters you say!?....holy fuck bro' $10 sez you could piss further than any other mentor......

Am I allowed to run whilst pissing?

**Jantar** · 24th August 2008, 19:12

Originally Posted by SixPackBack

This is starting to look like a whitewash-what gives?........genuine concerns written in a thoughtful manner end up in PD. Why forward prospective mentors if any negative feedback is removed from threads removing discussion?......

If you read the first post in each thread where a mentor is nominated it states quite clearly that negative feedback is to be PMed to the mentor admin team.

We have received negative feedback on a few of the nominees, and this will be taken into consideration before any final decision is made.

**Virago** · 24th August 2008, 20:57

Obviously it is important that the mentor nominations are made public, and very important that everyone has the opportunity to express an opinion on the suitability of the nominees.

However, these are real life people who have been nominated, and the last we wanted was to create a character assassination or shit-fight. Hence the request to submit negative concerns via PM.

On reflection, it is acknowledged that this created the appearance of a "popularity" contest, with only positive comments allowed in the threads.

As of now, the nomination threads will be locked, and if you wish to express an opinion on the suitability of any individual nominee, please do so by PM to myself or Jantar.

**Disco Dan** · 25th August 2008, 08:11

So instead of a only "nice" things being allowed posted, it is now all 'hidden' completely?

Doing my best "Phoebe" voice... just call me "flame boy" !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMWW1yXzvQE

**enigma51** · 25th August 2008, 08:28

Originally Posted by Jantar

If you read the first post in each thread where a mentor is nominated it states quite clearly that negative feedback is to be PMed to the mentor admin team.

We have received negative feedback on a few of the nominees, and this will be taken into consideration before any final decision is made.

Yeah but when i remove my support from a nominee i would expect it to stay there so that people know that i have removed it. I didnt saying one bad thing about the person but yet it still gets moved to PD. Whats with that.

or is it a case of all pigs are equal some are just more equal than others

Same amount of bullshit as the mentor program you should rename it to the lets feel good about our self program!

**wysper** · 28th August 2008, 09:41

Not sure if this is the right place to ask.

How do you know who the mentors in your area are and how do you get in touch with them?

**Jantar** · 28th August 2008, 10:05

No mentors (other than the Seniors) have been confirmed yet as they are still in the notification process. However we are probably only a few days away from confirming the first few.

In the meantime, contact the Senior Mentor for your region and outline just where you are with your riding, and what mentoring you are looking for. I'm sure that you will be given a mentor who can help you fairly soon.

A list of Senior Mentors and their regions is here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=80017