Police ignore High Court judge.

[swbarnett]

Zero is a myth. A reduction would be great... especially to those families who get to keep theirs as a result of any reduction....

While I agree that a reduction would be nice there are two reasons why I don't believe this is achievable.

1. We are so near to zero already that there is a case to say that we are already there.

2. The cost of any further reductions, if not already there, is getting close to being unsupportable. Both in terms of financial and social costs.

The very concept that I have to pay the price for someone else's bad driving or simple human error is something that can only breed resentment and erode the very fabric that holds our society together - an individual's basic respect for their fellow societal members.

[Indoo]

2. The cost of any further reductions, if not already there, is getting close to being unsupportable. Both in terms of financial and social costs.

How so? I know that the cost of each road death to society is estimated at some 1 million dollars or something, what are the costs of reducing that?

The very concept that I have to pay the price for someone else's bad driving or simple human error is something that can only breed resentment and erode the very fabric that holds our society together - an individual's basic respect for their fellow societal members.

Thats dramatizing it a wee bit isn't it? I think most people in society recognize the need for a speed limit, some might not like it when they are made to obey it themselves but still see it as a necessary evil as its unfortunately unworkable to have a graduated speed limit depending on driver skill and conditions. I might not like having a 110km speed limit placed on me but I like having it placed on most other road users.

[scumdog]

The number of tickets issued for minor speeding offenses in New Zealand has skyrocketed. In 2001, there were just 311 tickets issued to motorists accused of driving between 4 and 6 km per hour over the limit. Last year, that number grew to 34,651 with a total of NZD $46.5 million (US $32.3 million) collected from all speeding fines.

"The huge ticket rise has the smell of quotas about it," National Party Police Spokesman Chester Borrows said in a statement.

Figures show that while the number of tickets issued for minor violations has increased, the number of tickets issued for serious violations has dropped 35 percent.


Appears to be a very profitable racket......

taxpayer is being robbed allright....

Yup, no end of muppets and slack-jawed mouth-breathing losers out there to help pay my salary...

[scumdog]

Therefore it is obvious to me that the majority of issued speeding tickets are no more than revenue collecting, quota meeting, pollitician pleasing bullshit. Good on anyone who contributes to difficulty collecting revenue from them.

Nobody has collected any 'revenue' from me since 1987 - so I guess I'm letting the team down eh?

I'll leave that sort of 'tax' payment to the muppets out there.....

[Stormer]

What he was getting at was the overzealous enforcement of ridiculously low speed limits with ridiculously low tolerances and often with little common sense being applied regarding the circumstances of the alleged offence/misdemeanour.

Finally.
There it is.
Clear REALITY!!!
Frame it and hang it on yer wall!

speedpro, that`s gotta be the quote of the year, good on ya!!

[marty]

unfortunatley your letter has sunk you. it says 'i'm guilty but please let me off, even though i'm on an L plate not only am i exceeding my 70k speed limit, but i'm also exceeding the posted limit, by 21km/h'

have a look at some basic physics. at 100km/h, you're travelling at 27 metres/second. if your blown off course by 1m, and you take 3 seconds to get back on track, you have travelled around 81m. obviously, at slower speed, you are going to eat less distance (70k = 19m/s). not sure where i'm going with this, but your speed limit on an L plate is there for a reason, so is the speed limit on the bridge. if the wind's too strong for you, take the bus, or the long way home.

[swbarnett]

How so? I know that the cost of each road death to society is estimated at some 1 million dollars or something, what are the costs of reducing that?

The cost of reducing the toll from 400 to 350 will be less than reducing it from 350 to 300 which will be less than that of reducing it from 300 to 250.
It's the law of diminishing returns for each extra number that is to be wiped off the toll a proportionately higher sum must be spent. This is because you will never remove the human element without fully automating the roads (something I and, I'm guessing most people in this forum, would be strongly opposed to).

Thats dramatizing it a wee bit isn't it? I think most people in society recognize the need for a speed limit,

This is part of the problem. People delude themselves into thinking they're safe because other's shouldn't travel over a set limit. The truth is that that limit is no panacea.

some might not like it when they are made to obey it themselves but still see it as a necessary evil

The term "necessary evil" is an oxymoron. If it's evil it's not necessary and should be removed or replaced. The end does not justify the means.

as its unfortunately unworkable to have a graduated speed limit depending on driver skill and conditions.

We have one now. Although I've not seen it applied a lot lately there exists in law the concept of a Limited Speed Zone where you are allowed to do 100kph unless certain conditions exist. And then there is the cop's discretion, I've passed cops doing 70kph in a 50 who obviously thought it was appropriate for the conditions.

I might not like having a 110km speed limit placed on me but I like having it placed on most other road users.

We don't punish people for murders they "might" commit so why punish people on the road for accidents they "might" cause?

[swbarnett]

have a look at some basic physics. at 100km/h, you're travelling at 27 metres/second. if your blown off course by 1m, and you take 3 seconds to get back on track, you have travelled around 81m. obviously, at slower speed, you are going to eat less distance (70k = 19m/s)

But if you're travelling faster you're likely not to be deflected as much.

, but your speed limit on an L plate is there for a reason, so is the speed limit on the bridge. if the wind's too strong for you, take the bus, or the long way home.

When's the last time you rode over the harbour bridge in a strong cross wind? 100kph is better than 80.

[scumdog]

We don't punish people for murders they "might" commit so why punish people on the road for accidents they "might" cause?

I bet if I let loose at ramdon around Riviera of the South with my AK47 the gendarmes would soon jump on me - regardless if I was actually endangering anybody...

[speedpro]

Extreme examples are often used to prove a general point. We've drifted away from the original reason for this thread a bit which seems to be the KB way. The point people are discussing now is the ticketing of vehicles for what seems fairly innocent, harm wise, excursions over the speed limit. The newish part of the Northern Motorway here in AK is at least 2 lanes wide, has huge verges of around 50-80 metres in places, opposing lanes are seperated by distance and barriers, visibility is excellent, traffic at times is minimal(for AK) and yet you would still be foolish to safely and boringly cruise it at say 130kmh on a ZZR1100. Canterbury Plains in places are the same. Isolated, little traffic, excellent visibility, and some cop parked in a shady spot with the radar out, or cruising in the mufti car, handing out tickets for 115kmh. The Southern Motorway down past Meremere is the same. Boringly easy to negotiate, safe as it can be made, and infested with traffic police intent on handing out tickets for some minor speeding offence.

I actually think it may be laziness on the part of the officers. You have to issue a certain number of tickets in a period. What simpler way of achieving it than to hang round a nice safe bit of road and ping people for minor speeding infringements. The other way of looking at that of course is that with the emphasis on ticketing speeding the officers have little time for dealing with the real causes of accidents, even if they did have any idea what they may be which seems doubtful in some cases.

[Matt_TG]

You were doing well till you stated the obvious..

What simpler way of achieving it than to hang round a nice safe bit of road and ping people for minor speeding infringements.

Probably the same reason people fish in channels and around reefs. It pays to go where the punters are. If the road's wide, clear and makes an obvious dragstrip then you'd expect it to be Policed. The Law says you're speeding, the Police are bound by duty to enforce the Law.

[rwh]

The cost of reducing the toll from 400 to 350 will be more than reducing it from 350 to 300 which will be more than that of reducing it from 300 to 250. It's the law of diminishing returns for each extra number that is to be wiped off the toll a proportionately higher sum must be spent.

Um - you've worded that backwards

Richard

[swbarnett]

Um - you've worded that backwards

OOPS!

Should've been:

The cost of reducing the toll from 400 to 350 will be less than reducing it from 350 to 300 which will be less than that of reducing it from 300 to 250. It's the law of diminishing returns for each extra number that is to be wiped off the toll a proportionately higher sum must be spent.

Thanks Richard.

[Patrick]

....The very concept that I have to pay the price for someone else's bad driving ...

Huh? You pay someone elses speeding tickets? You pay for someone elses failing to give way or stop at reds? Nice....

Finally.
There it is.
Clear REALITY!!!
Frame it and hang it on yer wall!

Aint bad, clear reality and all, but it already exists... it is framed already... those speed limit signs are framed within a red circle.... Rocket science I know but...

... The newish part of the Northern Motorway here in AK is at least 2 lanes wide, has huge verges of around 50-80 metres in places, opposing lanes are seperated by distance and barriers, visibility is excellent, traffic at times is minimal(for AK) and yet you would still be foolish to safely and boringly cruise it at say 130kmh on a ZZR1100. Canterbury Plains in places are the same. Isolated, little traffic, excellent visibility, and some cop parked in a shady spot with the radar out, or cruising in the mufti car, handing out tickets for 115kmh. The Southern Motorway down past Meremere is the same. Boringly easy to negotiate, safe as it can be made, and infested with traffic police intent on handing out tickets for some minor speeding offence....

Everyone knows these hot spots... but still they come along, donating to Helen.... EVERY day......

[Max Preload]

Everyone knows these hot spots... but still they come along, donating to Helen.... EVERY day......

I *think* his point was there's no real safety issue, which as we all know is the claimed logic behind not exceeding 100km/h and ticketing those who do. A single red light runner off the road from demerits because they were caught repeatedly by a targeted campaign does much more for road safety than all the tickets issued for speeding in the <+20km/h bracket on roads such as described above, like the Huntly Expressway or virtually any section of the Auckland motorway system, barr maybe the harbour bridge.