Training

[Mikkel]

Dan you'll be surprised what you get to see and experience over the next couple of decades. I only hope you get to experience the gut wrenching disappointment of having your own personal experience devalued and have scorn and vitriol poured on it because you're old and useless. Schadenfreude is about the only emotion I experience with any depth these days. Pity I won't be around to see the day when you finally realise that no one actually gives a shit.

Jesus Jim, got the wrong leg out of bed this morning? Step away from the computer, sit down and relax with some good music and have some peat juice for christ's sake
Carry on like this and you'll give the internet a depression.

[dpex]

I believe jrandom has made an excellent point. If one does not know the position of a 'failure' event horizon, then one can never truly understand his/her bike's abilities.

The big Q is; how does one visit and pass safely through an event horison on a bike without causing significant damage to person or bike?

In this respect, bike-riding is almost unique; in as much as, one cannot pass through an event horison without suffering the consequences.

I clearly remember learning to stall and spin an aircraft. But I was taught at an altitude which guaranteed my safety and, better yet, my instructor was sitting right behind me to take over if I messed up. I've had similar experiences with rock-climbing, abseiling, and parachuting. Always there has been a fall-back position.

But not so with bike-riding. For me to find the event-horizon of say, a back-end, serious skid, I have to get into one. Once in it I can't safely pull out, or have an instructor pull me out, to go back to the point before the event horizon and try again.

As a result, my knowledge of my bike's and my ability are seriously compromised. This means I could quite easily whimp-out in a corner, due to my fear of skidding, go wide and crash when, if only I'd known, my bike could have easily laid down through the corner.

Quite how a teaching programme can cater for this is, at this moment, beyond me.

[Katman]

I fail to see the relevance of 'finding the limits' of ones bike in a road riding situation. What would happen if all other road users started trying to 'find their limits'?

[Ixion]

Yup, was going to say that describes the Mungatuk valley perfectly.

We do! Its called The Dunstan Trail. And one hell of a lot of fun to ride on road tyres.

But they lack (I suspect) the fast sealed 200+ kph straights , before the slippery off camber bumpy gravel strewn screen hidden corners.

Off road riding is , as I said, a better teaching ground than track riding. But it usually lacks the ability to build up high speed. And it is this , the transition from blasting along at warp speed down the track, to "oh shit oh fuckity fuck who put THAT there, wot do I do NOW " that the neither the track nor trail riding provide, yet which is so very often encountered on the road .


If someone can find a track with some nice bumpy off camber steep downhill corners , with gravel and eroded edges, then track days there would be worthwhile. Especially if the hazards could be dynamically reconfigured between laps,

[Ocean1]

But they lack (I suspect) the fast sealed 200+ kph straights , before the slippery off camber bumpy gravel strewn screen hidden corners.

I certainly don't reach those velocities.

Off road riding is , as I said, a better teaching ground than track riding. But it usually lacks the ability to build up high speed. And it is this , the transition from blasting along at warp speed down the track, to "oh shit oh fuckity fuck who put THAT there, wot do I do NOW " that the neither the track nor trail riding provide, yet which is so very often encountered on the road .

Why is absolute speed relevant?

Way I see it the primary function of that thing in your right hand is to adjust the endorphin pump in yer brain.
Sure, it can be used for other things, but seriously, it's design purpose is to explore that fine line between pleasure and pain.

Heh, I is a poet.

*Sorry*

Velocity is just one of several environmental variables that define what we perceve as risk, and walking that line is the game. So if the terain presents constantly variable and uncertain traction problems, the number of possible target artifacts is large and "stopping in the clear distance ahead" would render the excercise pointless then the risk is (correctly) percieved to be fookin' high.

If someone can find a track with some nice bumpy off camber steep downhill corners , with gravel and eroded edges, then track days there would be worthwhile. Especially if the hazards could be dynamically reconfigured between laps,

An even more accurate description of the place. So if yo ever get the chance to take a wee exploritory fang on either of the suggested tracks, on an appropriate machine, then let me know. Not only would I be interested to discover your aproach to remaining on that very narrow line but I'd love to join you

I'll bring the refreshments.

[dpex]

I want to know what to do when a Concrete mixer changes across 2 lanes abruptly, cutting me off and crushing me against a barrier.

I would have thought:laugh the best solution would be to avoid being anywhere near a person driving a concrete mixer. Given a concrete mixer is a fairly unusual form of transport one would assume they would be rare and thus fairly easy to spot.

It must be hell-on-wheels trying to get a warrant for a concrete mixer.

[Bikernereid]

If someone can find a track with some nice bumpy off camber steep downhill corners , with gravel and eroded edges, then track days there would be worthwhile. Especially if the hazards could be dynamically reconfigured between laps,[/QUOTE]


Look at Cadwell Park. It is an amazing track and if you don't learn a thing or two there then something is very wrong. Don't think they can reconfigure between laps but I don't think you would ever ride it the same twice for sure.

[Swoop]

Jesus Jim, got the wrong leg out of bed this morning?

I don't think he has.
J2 is making perfect sense to me.

[jrandom]

I believe jrandom has made an excellent point. If one does not know the position of a 'failure' event horizon, then one can never truly understand his/her bike's abilities.

The big Q is; how does one visit and pass safely through an event horison on a bike without causing significant damage to person or bike?

I did that on my GSX1400 at 120kph exiting T7 at Taupo.

Now I know precisely what not to do vis-a-vis applying throttle while holding enough lean to drag the sidestand.



It didn't hurt (although, according to Goblin, my sky-ground-sky-ground tumble down the track was quite spectacular) and total meaningful damage to the bike consisted of a broken end on the clutch lever and bent handlebars (they pushed back into shape just fine in the pits).

Assuming you're not practicing on a $40,000 work of art covered in fragile plastic, the track is a safe place to look for limits, both for body and wallet.

If the good Lord hadn't meant us to do the ton on our bums, he wouldn't have made cows with 2mm-thick skins.

As a result, my knowledge of my bike's and my ability are seriously compromised. This means I could quite easily whimp-out in a corner, due to my fear of skidding, go wide and crash when, if only I'd known, my bike could have easily laid down through the corner.

Come to a trackday. If you exercise care, you almost certainly won't crash, but you'll ride within limits far in excess of what you use on the road, thereby saving you from that situation when it happens.

Jim makes good points regarding attitude and training, but the simple fact is that the racetrack and (probably to an even greater extent) the dirt are where real motorcycle-handling skills (and, for that matter, the requisite attitudes) are acquired.

And the road is where those skills and attitudes are applied.

Neither riding practice on a racetrack or anything else is a magic formula for safety. IMHO, we should all do what we can to promulgate good riding attitudes and maintain a humble attitude toward learning what we can.

And that can and should include riding motorcycles in environments other than public roads. So long as the powers gained are used only for Good, and never for Evel (tm), there's no such thing as 'skills that shouldn't be learned'.

I can only hope that I manage to retain a smidgeon more optimism about it throughout future decades than Jim has.

[sinfull]

I did that on my GSX1400 at 120kph exiting T7 at Taupo.

:

T7 had its way with 3 or 4 riders yesterday mate ! Think it was more cold tires that was the issue there, Group 4 had more than its share of em !

[Ocean1]

Jim makes good points regarding attitude and training, but the simple fact is that the racetrack and (probably to an even greater extent) the dirt are where real motorcycle-handling skills (and, for that matter, the requisite attitudes) are acquired.

So progressively restricting access to the sort of ideal training grounds mentioned above in the name of safety would be a bad idea?

[dpex]

Now there's a term to which can relate. I have to admit I am a bit of a speed-freak, so I've booked into the Eastern Creek course to see if I can get it out of my system; or trash my system completely. :--((

However, the concept of 'road-craft is a goody, so here's a Q, James.

How's about you elucidate say, ten, primary road-craft skills. Explain what they are. What they are for. How to go about practicing them, and how to measure progress.

Perhaps you could also accept a Q&A from those practicing the road-skills you suggest.

I'd be heavily into something like that. Personally I'd like to see an emphasis on wet-weather skills; but that's just me.

[dpex]

Latterly, I've taken to wandering the inner by-ways North of Auckland, where the traffic is light and roads are poorly designed and built. As Trudes says, there's live-stock and brain-deads all over the place. Today, a low and slow-flying native wood-pigeon was almost my undoing. Bastard thing refused to stay on his/her side of the road!!!

On such roads I constantly edit my cornering technique. If it felt good I carry on. If it felt bad I turn around and go do it again as many times as it takes to make it feel good. (BTW: 'Feel good' means feeling totally in control without effort.)

When I get home I spend maybe ten minutes on a quiet, narrow road, nearby, just completing figures-of-eight. I'm still doing a bit of foot-tapping, but I will persist till I can complete elegant figures-or-eight like I'm Torvel & Dean.

To me, this, apparently, rather trivial exercise is one of control. Mind you, it must be paying off because the 'Hazard ID' Instructor, of the other day asserted my U-turn was 'one' of the best he'd seen. That I'd missing noting an intersection ten k's up the road, fourteen ants (which can cause road surface slip) crossing the road, and a small Dachshund named Dennis laying in a drive nearby, was by-the-by. My U-turn was cool. "Thanks for the training in this matter, Quickchick!"

[dpex]

I have to say I'm getting very engaged with my daily exercise of executing upwards of 100 lazy figures of eight on a narrow road.

When I first stared doing this (about three weeks ago) I was all over the place, foot-stamping, stuttering,erg; horrid.

But as I managed to continuously adopt the advice of quickchick (look hard at where you're going, and keep the bloody head up) so it became easier.

Now I can float around doing figures of eight in less than four metres; till my neck gets sore and I fail to look and lift my head. Then it all goes to shit.

I guess what I'm on about here is; although I do these figures of eight at around 10kph, my balance and sense of harmony with my bike (her name is Imoasina) :--)) is developing. I'm not yet sure who controls whom. But geez it feels good to be able to loop around at low speed (my bete noir) developing my synergy with my bike. I presume it will have some benefit somewhere out there.

I'm also practicing emergency stops whenever I get the chance. One of these days I'll get to stop hard without feeling I'm about to go for a flying lesson. :--((

[Ocean1]

One of these days I'll get to stop hard without feeling I'm about to go for a flying lesson. :--((

Yes, I practiced emergency stops last Sunday also.

Just one.

I had no idea I could do 100kph stoppies.

The brother was impressed as all hell.

Not doing it again though.