Technique Clinic

[warewolf]

I just put 25mm risers on the 950 bars (and I have a set for the 640).
I'm just over six foot, and it makes things much more comfortable when standing (wish I done it ages ago).

The 640A has 18mm risers standard, and they are 10-15mm too short for my 5'7" (and I too have a good ape factor).

I'm sure once I bother to get the extra rise, I'll wish I did it ages ago!!

[Padmei]

The only prob with having bars bent forward which is what I'd like is one side already hits the scren on full lock with the hand guards on.

[cooneyr]

The only prob with having bars bent forward which is what I'd like is one side already hits the scren on full lock with the hand guards on.

Should mentioned this catch as well. The DR was obviously not an issue and the guards touch just a little bit on the XTZ. F650 GS/Dakars have reasonably well raked bars cause of this issue.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Maybe on the next Nelson rideout we can get some more pointers.

I may have to try some risers on Gonzo as when riding standing up my arms are still pulled down & back - can't really get into a neutral position.

You need to have a go on some other bikes to see if one is set up to let you stand properly/comfortably and modify gonzo to suit.

[pete376403]

When I first got my KLR the bars were too far back, was like riding a wheelbarrow.* I've rotated the bars forward, then adjusted the clutch/brake levers. The handguards are about 10 -15mm from the fairing on full lock but the bars are fine for standing up.









*(waits for gratuitous comments about KLRs not being anywhere near as good as wheelbarrows...)

[NordieBoy]

*(waits for gratuitous comments about KLRs not being anywhere near as good as wheelbarrows...)

Depends. What colour wheelbarrow?

[Crisis management]

The only prob with having bars bent forward which is what I'd like is one side already hits the scren on full lock with the hand guards on.

Can you adjust the lock stops to prevent this? A small loss of turning circle would be a small price to pay. If the lockstops aren't adjustable fix a lump of steel/epoxy stuff to pack out the stop.

*(waits for gratuitous comments about KLRs not being anywhere near as good as wheelbarrows...)

Whats this gratuitous stuff, I expect to get paid for my 2c worth.



PS. Pink wheelbarrows.

[merv]

As one who has ridden fast on gravel for years I'm with Oscar on the "there is no substitute for time on the bike" theory and the reason is with dirt riding there never is two bits of terrain the same. You have to learn the feel of the bike, its tyres, its weight distribution and all that stuff relative to the terrain right at the moment in time which is varying all the time. No fixed advice can be given and I am sure if you went to a training school you'll learn quite a lot, but then you've got to be able to react to different situations than you learnt.

I can only speak for what I think makes me go quick and given I am a short arse and reasonably light (or used to be) then if someone else swapped bikes with me but they were different stature and weight they would have to ride differently. Unless you are on a really rough track then don't bother standing up. On a typical gravel road and remembering what Oscar said too about the two wheel tracks, you'll be faster sitting down and riding more like you would on the road. Try and keep the bike as straight as you can and as upright as you can so you can accelerate without much loss of traction. You want forward drive not some excessive Hollywood sliding like you're being filmed on a flat track.

I sit well forward on the bike, except on thick gravel, then you need to move your arse back and lighten the front. How much depends on how it feels, and that's the thing you've got to get used to understanding what you're feeling.

Always two finger front brake into corners changing down as you go into the corner and steady with the rear brake and then power out as others have said.

Practice, practice, practice.

[pampa]

As someone that is learning relatively lately on life I agree with that of 'practice practice practice' ... but

in my case it also helped to have some sort of guidelines and drills I could do without getting to scared as sometimes happens on real life track (road/whatever). You get all sorts of questions on how can I do this or that and of course there will be many ways of doing it but well knowing how is done by someone with experience may help. As in all sports I believe that helps splitting the real deal in small easy to practice drills.

of course I'm not very in courageous, so rather learn on a relatively secure way rather than getting scared to death and therefore not really able to learn much , but hey that's me

As one who has ridden fast on gravel for years I'm with Oscar on the "there is no substitute for time on the bike" theory and the reason is with dirt riding there never is two bits of terrain the same. You have to learn the feel of the bike, its tyres, its weight distribution and all that stuff relative to the terrain right at the moment in time which is varying all the time. No fixed advice can be given and I am sure if you went to a training school you'll learn quite a lot, but then you've got to be able to react to different situations than you learnt.

I can only speak for what I think makes me go quick and given I am a short arse and reasonably light (or used to be) then if someone else swapped bikes with me but they were different stature and weight they would have to ride differently. Unless you are on a really rough track then don't bother standing up. On a typical gravel road and remembering what Oscar said too about the two wheel tracks, you'll be faster sitting down and riding more like you would on the road. Try and keep the bike as straight as you can and as upright as you can so you can accelerate without much loss of traction. You want forward drive not some excessive Hollywood sliding like you're being filmed on a flat track.

I sit well forward on the bike, except on thick gravel, then you need to move your arse back and lighten the front. How much depends on how it feels, and that's the thing you've got to get used to understanding what you're feeling.

Always two finger front brake into corners changing down as you go into the corner and steady with the rear brake and then power out as others have said.

Practice, practice, practice.

[warewolf]

As one who has ridden fast on gravel for years I'm with Oscar on the "there is no substitute for time on the bike" theory and the reason is with dirt riding there never is two bits of terrain the same. You have to learn the feel of the bike, its tyres, its weight distribution and all that stuff relative to the terrain right at the moment in time which is varying all the time. No fixed advice can be given and I am sure if you went to a training school you'll learn quite a lot, but then you've got to be able to react to different situations than you learnt.

Oh don't be silly. Are you seriously suggesting dirt riding skills can't be taught?! Have you done any off-road training?

Training courses should give you a tool box of techniques to apply to any situation, including how to choose which tool when and how much.

Once you know what you should be doing, then you can go out and practice practice practice. Time on the bike has a significant drawback, in that you could always be doing the wrong thing. One trainer expressed it thus:

"Do you have ten years' experience?
Or one years' experience, ten times over?"

[NordieBoy]

"Do you have ten years' experience?
Or one years' experience, ten times over?"

My gravel riding skillz were more like 1 month of experience 120 times over.
Then I finally got the courage up to give it a handful in a corner and it worked!

And I didn't die!

[merv]

Oh don't be silly. Are you seriously suggesting dirt riding skills can't be taught?!

No, I think you missed the main point of what I was saying. To put it another way, all the theory in the world will only be part of the story, the learning the "feel" of the bike in relation to the terrain in my view is the most important thing. That's was also Oscar's point about "there is no substitute for time on the bike" .

When you answered OV Lander's questions above you effectively said a similar thing with your "as general rule, riding off-road (anything non-tarmac) you have to get used to the bike moving around, and you balancing the bike. The bike is no longer "fixed" to the surface, so the techniques are different (or less forgiving of errors)".

You also seem to be ignoring the later paragraphs in my post where I did give some advice based on what works for me.

[warewolf]

OK, I'm confused.

[monchopper]

Whether you've done some formal training courses or not you still need to do the miles before what you've learned comes naturally. By naturally I mean reacting without thinking.

It's a bit like taking ski lessons everytime you go, sure you're going to have a great technique but you'll miss all fun of just doing it. You have to find a balance.

It's always worth remembering that the guy with the best technique who arrives 15 minutes before you isn't necessarily having more fun than you.

[merv]

OK, I'm confused.

Well I'll try again, are we not all really saying similar things but with a difference of weighting of significance? We can't answer his questions with hard and fast must do's, but we can suggest he learns some theory - you called it getting the "toolbox of techniques" - and do some practice.

You seem to have a bias towards more theory than I would say, whereas I say learning the feel of the bike and the terrain has a greater importance.

The total of the two (theory and practice) is where the answer lies.

I went on to talk about what works for one person (as in me) might not work for someone else, hence the "feel" thing, but I described what works for me as advice that could be tried but I wouldn't be offended if it never worked for anyone else. This is so obvious when you consider racing and see how different people have their bikes set up differently so you cannot give advice and say "there you go, it will work perfectly for you, just do that".

As an example I have been surprised lately to see people standing up riding on smooth gravel roads while I go past them and wonder who is teaching that. They are up there in the wind with no need to absorb any large bumps in their legs (like you need to on MX tracks) so why do that? Its not that you need large amounts of body movement to control the bike on smooth gravel is my view. So this is but one example of where people have to do what "feels" right for them and be damned what I say just because it works for me. The theory of dirt riding is not a "black and white" science.

Are you still confused?