Technique Clinic

[Balrog]

I'm proabaly sounding like a broken record here, ..here .. here .. here
( please tell me you know what a record is )

But the great thing about the Dual Sport Adventure riding DVD is it
explains not only how to do something but also why.

I always "get it" better when I understand why you do things, as opposed to
just how to do it.

[XF650]

I'v had my share of dramas getting back into gravel riding & still only re learning, This is all very frustrating because I didn't have these issues in my youth, riding XL250 Motosports on gravel all the time. However with some excellent advice from other KB adv riders on here, I have been able to sort a few of these issues out.

I assume this discussion is more about deep pea-gravel type roads, rather than well worn hard pack gravel with defined tracks. My bikes behaved differently in the thicker stuff - The Freewind would wobble around, verging on tank slapping, not helped by 19" front wheel. Main fix was more aggresive tyres to penetrate the gravel. The DT230 front tended to 'sledge' in corners, fixed by weighting the front more & also better tyres. On both bikes I had the suspension adjusted to suite my weight plus changed the gearing for better engine braking. Experimenting with tyre pressures also helped but this is very dependant on personal preference e.g. on recent Brass Monkey trip I shared my bikes with Rogson and his prefered tyre pressures were higher than mine, on same bikes, same roads.

But the most important thing I have been told is to practice. Practice counter steering & weighting the pegs, practice by deliberatly riding along the gravel mounds & avoiding the easy bits. Relax & let the bike move around, don't fight it. Practice emergency braking & changing your line. Find a difficult corner that is negative camber & slippery, then ride it time & again without cutting the corner.
Eventually something will click and it will all become easier.

[NordieBoy]

Eventually something will click and it will all become easier.

Yep. And it's a bloody good feeling when it does.

[OV Lander]

So what will it be: Practice or teaching?

The old adage of 'Practice makes perfect' is wrong, quite flatly I say this. In reality, 'Practice makes permanent'.

If we practice, practice, practice the wrong things then strangely enough those errors seem to become permanent.

In my case, and the reason for raising the 'Clinic', is that after a year of 'teaching myself' I can tell that what I am practising is not 100% - more like 10%!.

With the benefit of you good advice (and I'd like to thanks Pampas and the many others who have all taken the time to put on papaer - ahem, screen, practices, techniques and exercises) I can now go out and practice, practice, practice some more appropriate exercises.

I hope that from this point forward the 'time on the bike' will start to mean so much more.

On a different note - we've certainly got the forum going a bit - which is always good!

[OV Lander]

Well folks, with some glorious whether I have been out and about practicing a lot of the things you've been suggesting. Such as Sunday afternoon doing 5km/h figure of 8 loops on the beach - the MXers who were out there must have been wonderign what that nutter was doing out there on a BMW in the first place, yet alone only barley moving!

Also bought the DVD suggested by Jim (Geez, that kiwi dollars' lost a bit!) and have been practicising the exercises wherever I find suitable terrain.

All in all, I can confirm that things are coming along just fine.

Feeling much more confidence and happy to trust in the theory, allowing the bike to do the work. Still talking myself through it all at the moment, but things are beginning to feel natural for the first time. Body reacted quicker than the head this evening when the rear wheel wanted to go sideways - always a good thing when you are stepping yourself things at a pace of "so now I need to...". Sees a lot of the balance and positioning skills are similar to skiing - if only I'd worked that out a while back!

Beginning to ride faster, but consious of the need to practice the slow speed stuff and really bed in the skills.

Thanks team - I owe you all a beer... ...or two

[OV Lander]

Yep. And it's a bloody good feeling when it does.

Oh yeah! Had a couple of 'clicks' now and by hecky does it feel good!

[Motu]

But the most important thing I have been told is to practice. Practice counter steering & weighting the pegs, practice by deliberatly riding along the gravel mounds & avoiding the easy bits. Find a difficult corner that is negative camber & slippery, then ride it time & again without cutting the corner.
Eventually something will click and it will all become easier.

It's nice to get a feel good feeling when it clicks - but it's more important to do the nasty stuff you hate.I rode a shit load of gravel roads when I was younger...I made myself do it (on road bikes,clip on's even) because they scared me.It took a long till to get them sussed....and made them my preferred road.

[Padmei]

It's always worth remembering that the guy with the best technique who arrives 15 minutes before you isn't necessarily having more fun than you.

just reread this thread & this phrase stood out big time

[NordieBoy]

just reread this thread & this phrase stood out big time

Yep

[Oscar]

just reread this thread & this phrase stood out big time

Yabbut the guy that got there .15 seconds before you is having a lot more fun than you are...

[Padmei]

Yabbut the guy that got there .15 seconds before you is having a lot more fun than you are...

Bugger...

Just while we're on the subject, I know it now is personal riding style but do you guys sit forwrd in attack mode cornering or in laid back position? Does it make much diff to what the bike will do?

[Oscar]

Bugger...

Just while we're on the subject, I know it now is personal riding style but do you guys sit forwrd in attack mode cornering or in laid back position? Does it make much diff to what the bike will do?

Moving forward (sliding right up the seat) moves the mass over the front wheel, improving steering.

[Bass]

Bugger...

Just while we're on the subject, I know it now is personal riding style but do you guys sit forwrd in attack mode cornering or in laid back position? Does it make much diff to what the bike will do?

I'm something of a newby to Adv riding and the DR has a rep for being a bit light in the front end.
However, I have been given a few tips along the way by those in the know and the one that has made the most difference for me is getting my weight well forward in the corners. It has made the front end feel just so much more planted and given me heaps more confidence when the back end starts getting loose.
I find myself even encouraging the back end to break out these days - rear brake going in and power coming out. Being able to keep the front hooked up makes SOOOO much difference.
I'm finding that it depends on the surface and uphill/downhill though. The above works for me in gravel or dry dirt and somewhere near level going. Steep rocky or slippery stuff, I'm still trying to figure out and deep sand is another ball game altogether.
Water crossings I usually solve by falling off and then pushing it out, or stalling it and then pushing it out if I'm having a good day.

[Oscar]

I'm something of a newby to Adv riding and the DR has a rep for being a bit light in the front end.
However, I have been given a few tips along the way by those in the know and the one that has made the most difference for me is getting my weight well forward in the corners. It has made the front end feel just so much more planted and given me heaps more confidence when the back end starts getting loose.
I find myself even encouraging the back end to break out these days - rear brake going in and power coming out. Being able to keep the front hooked up makes SOOOO much difference.
I'm finding that it depends on the surface and uphill/downhill though. The above works for me in gravel or dry dirt and somewhere near level going. Steep rocky or slippery stuff, I'm still trying to figure out and deep sand is another ball game altogether.
Water crossings I usually solve by falling off and then pushing it out, or stalling it and then pushing it out if I'm having a good day.

Deep sand is a bit of a mind game.
Sit back and allow the front to hunt around a little bit power on to get the thing on top of the sand and keep it throttled up to stop it digging in.

Water crossing are interesting. I've a theory that hitting cold water with a hot bike fucks up the mixture and makes it stall. Cracking the choke slightly seems to help.

[Bass]

Deep sand is a bit of a mind game.

Ain't that the truth

Sit back and allow the front to hunt around a little bit power on to get the thing on top of the sand and keep it throttled up to stop it digging in.

I don't have too much trouble with dunes and flat beaches anymore. I think it was Offrd who said to me that 80 k was good and that 100 k was better. I'm no expert but I get by.
However, in Oz I would be blasting down some road at about 120 k and because everything is the same colour I would suddenly find myself in a rut in deep sand. Road level was suddenly axle height at times.
Everything seemed to be OK - like the bike was much easier to ride than it was at 10 or 20 k, but this is where the mind game thing came in. I kept thinking about how many extra pieces I could give my skeleton if I fucked up.
What really had me filling my pants was that it was just as chancey to slow down as it was to keep the power on. When the sides of the rut started to grab that front wheel, I was in deep doodoo.

Water crossing are interesting. I've a theory that hitting cold water with a hot bike fucks up the mixture and makes it stall. Cracking the choke slightly seems to help.

Sounds like I'm not entirely alone then.