NZ Police public image

[Wolf]

OK. NCEA then. Which I guess is the same as no qualification.
Granted, the conditions are crap. (Imagine having everyone pissed off at you all the time.) But the pay's not bad. You start on 45 - 50 grand? Have ticket immunity and get to wear a uniform and thrash someone elses car to death.
Where's the problem?

Answered your own question, you have.

[Ixion]

...
Where's the problem?

Sergeants ?

[scumdog]

OK. NCEA then. Which I guess is the same as no qualification.
Granted, the conditions are crap. (Imagine having everyone pissed off at you all the time.) But the pay's not bad. You start on 45 - 50 grand? Have ticket immunity and get to wear a uniform and thrash someone elses car to death.
Where's the problem?

To add to the others comments: "The politicians and the media" a quote I heard.

And the "ticket immunity" is not a given for 100% of the time.

[Lou Girardin]

To add to the others comments: "The politicians and the media" a quote I heard.

And the "ticket immunity" is not a given for 100% of the time.

Sure you've got the HP, which means "hanging paper".
But you never used to be so disliked. What's changed?
Oh that's right. The public perception that it's all about cash for the Govt. Plus the fact that the MOT used to do the dirty work.
Right or wrong, that's a perception you have to change.

[scumdog]

Sure you've got the HP, which means "hanging paper".
But you never used to be so disliked. What's changed?
Oh that's right. The public perception that it's all about cash for the Govt. Plus the fact that the MOT used to do the dirty work.
Right or wrong, that's a perception you have to change.

About 13 or more years since the merger and NOW we get that perception? A lot of it is media driven, after all there was not the same furore as little as two years ago and nothing has changed THAT much in those couple of years, anybody got any other sensible (not WINJA type rants) as to WHAT has caused this change?

[Ixion]

About 13 or more years since the merger and NOW we get that perception? A lot of it is media driven, after all there was not the same furore as little as two years ago and nothing has changed THAT much in those couple of years, anybody got any other sensible (not WINJA type rants) as to WHAT has caused this change?

Removal of the discretion factor. Which was done about 2 years ago. Previously even HP could "let it go" if it was a bit over the limit, but otherwise safe. So if a driver did get pinged he/she usually felt at least a bit guilty. But nowdays thousands (lliterally) of motorists are getting stopped and more or less being accused of being murderers becuase their speedo's crept up to 111k or thereabouts. They look at what they were doing, think about it , ask themselves "was I actually dangerous ?" and decide that "No - it wasn't" .I'm not talking about the "speed demons" here who always thought that. I'm talking grandma and grandpa. Add in the revelations that the cops have a quota to meet, and loss of respect is a certainty.

Add to that that all the funding going to HP has left general duties running on a shoe string (despite the fact that they are the ones the public see as the real police). Need any more ?

I also think that the police badly need another advertising agency. Their advertisments in the last few years have actually generated a lot of negativity.

To fix it ? Dead easy. Tell every cop (including - especially - HP) that they have some discretion. Give more money / manpower to the general duties section.

[scumdog]

Removal of the discretion factor. Which was done about 2 years ago. Previously even HP could "let it go" if it was a bit over the limit, but otherwise safe.
To fix it ? Dead easy. Tell every cop (including - especially - HP) that they have some discretion. Give more money / manpower to the general duties section.

Not that easy, ACC wants "proof" that the money they are fronting for "road safety" is being spent on exactly that, tickets are that "proof" hence the "quota' i.e. a link to the hours allegedly spent on traffic work.

Discretion is still there but if a traffic guy is struggling to meet his 'quota'?....

I still flash headlights/wave finger/stop and rant even today as well as 'ticket'

BTW Why does somebody moan about a ticket for 111kph but NOBODY whimpers about a blood/alcohol level of 444mg?
It's the same percentage over and theoreticly (sp) one would have thought the argument "111kph isn't making me any more dangerous than 100kph" should have a parrallel one for drink-driving but there is a thunderous silence in that department.

[The Tazman]

Man you guys are fucked if you think we can operate without the police.
Yes they are inefficent, but they are still there.
Dont blame the force, blame the system - cops arent robots.
Infact fuck you guys who think cops are all wankers, some of them are ok guys/girls. Id rather pay a cop, then a bum who cant be bothered getting a job, a crim in prison or some bludger who will claim for 'back pain' while on holiday in Fiji.
1000's of people in NZ who do fuck all for NZ, and you want to bitch about some cop who caught u breaking the law.
Ive been in plenty of situations where cops have done a no show, but as i said before its the systems fault.
And if i saw a cop in a fight gettin kickd, i would jump in to help em out - thats some one brother/sister guys

Well said avgas

I think that allot of people have forgotten that the police are just like you and me getting up and going to work. They have to go by rules and regulations the same as we do at work. If they came to work for or with you and started doing what they wanted rather than how it was supposed to be done you would give them a warning. There rules dictate they give you the same, which can mean a ticket, fine or court.

Yes there are some bad ones but that is the same in any job you go to. How many of you have worked somewhere that has at least one idiot???? If you look at the ratio of idiots to staff in that job then apply the same to the police force then you will have some idiots!!!!!!!!!!

Remember that it is the government that makes the laws!! and who put the government in?? the majority of the country!!

I could go on but I think that will do for my 2 cents worth

Stay happy and look out for each other

[Lou Girardin]

BTW Why does somebody moan about a ticket for 111kph but NOBODY whimpers about a blood/alcohol level of 444mg?
It's the same percentage over and theoreticly (sp) one would have thought the argument "111kph isn't making me any more dangerous than 100kph" should have a parrallel one for drink-driving but there is a thunderous silence in that department.

There used to be 20 odd years ago. But it's drawing a long bow to correlate the two offences.
The fact is that people have travelled safely for years at 110 - 120 on the open road. That is not the speed that people kill themselves doing unless there are other, greater, causative factors. And we've been told that 85% of accidents happen below the speed limit as well.
The drop in public regard for cops tracks the gradual increase in persecution of drivers.
Remember when cameras were introduced? We were told that they'd only target the 85 percentile offender. Then the tolerance was dropped to 10 k's over. Reason = the Govt got a taste for the revenue and wanted more.
Laser guns were introduced to target the dangerous speeder using heavy traffic as a shield, now they ping drivers in the Victoria tunnel at 61 k's.
Ticket quotas for cops were introduced when it became apparent that camera revenue was falling. Now you guys write more tickets than the cameras.
Then you get Gregg Murphy stating, in an article in a Sunday paper, some very pertinent ideas about the road toll and for dealing with young drivers.
John Kelly dismisses him with some puerile comment about speed being the problem.
We don't like being treated as cash cows or having our intelligence insulted.
The balls in your bosses court now, but I don't think Robbie is up to the job.

[Ixion]

..

BTW Why does somebody moan about a ticket for 111kph but NOBODY whimpers about a blood/alcohol level of 444mg?
It's the same percentage over and theoreticly (sp) one would have thought the argument "111kph isn't making me any more dangerous than 100kph" should have a parrallel one for drink-driving but there is a thunderous silence in that department.

Because John Public by and large accepts the 400mg (or whatever it is) level as reasonable. And if he gets caught over it, will be pissed off (good pun there), but feel guilty about it.

John P has found that he can have a couple of beers, or a glass or two of wine, and still be OK on the screening test. Being a reasonable guy he figures that any more than that actually is "knocking it back a bit" and doesn't have too much sympathy for someone who complains when they get caught over it. He thinks that the 400mg figure shouldn't be a problem to a reasonable , lawabiding person

But the 111 is often under circumstances that he doesn't feel are reasonable. He wasn't caning it not even intentionally speeding. Light traffic, good road etc etc. He comes away with a ticket and thinks that the limit is a problem for a reasonable law abiding person

If the blood level were reduced to 100mg I think you'd see the same complaints.

If the discretionary limit was raised to (say) 130kph ,ie ticket at 130 regardless but 110 to 130 it's the cop's call on whether it was risky (and the cop explains *why* he thinks it was dangerous) , then I think the level of complaint would drop to similar to the breath test limit.

Bottom line is that if John P thinks the rules are reasonable he doesn't bitch (too much) and doesn't support those who do. If he feels they're unreasonable he will.

So, John P feels the present *policing* of the speed limit is unreasonable . Not the limit himself, surveys tend to show that he goes along with that. And he's all in favour of the police cracking down on "real speeding". But, too often he's getting pinged for what he sees as technical offences not "real speeding"

Either he's right, and the police need to review their position. Or he's wrong and the police need to show him (and convince him) that that 111kph really was dangerous.At present he feels that the police aren't giving him a fair break.

I think maybe Mr Scumdog and Mr Spudchucka are able to exercise a bit more discretion than is allowed their counterparts in the big smoke.

[inlinefour]

Stop reading it then

I take it then that you like to carry on like that then?

[spudchucka]

I just saw a recruitment article about the Police, it appears that there are no minimum qualifications for entry and of those accepted the failure rate is just 2%.
Even for the MOT you had to have School Cert as a minimum and a drivers licence.
If they became a bit more discriminating they might not have to face the image problems they currently have.

What we need is higher unemployment and shitty working conditions in the private sector then people would look at things like police as being a viable option. At the moment there are so many better options why would anyone want to get assaulted, spat at, abused, risk their lives etc etc for a pathetic $42,000.

[sAsLEX]

What we need is higher unemployment and shitty working conditions in the private sector then people would look at things like police as being a viable option. At the moment there are so many better options why would anyone want to get assaulted, spat at, abused, risk their lives etc etc for a pathetic $42,000.

saw a cop in taupo who had all the toys. Green Mufti wagon with all the radar and even a dog!!! Now that would be an alright job, the jack of all trades cop in a smaller country area! But being sent into South Auckland for 40k, nup not for me.

[WINJA]

What we need is higher unemployment and shitty working conditions in the private sector then people would look at things like police as being a viable option. At the moment there are so many better options why would anyone want to get assaulted, spat at, abused, risk their lives etc etc for a pathetic $42,000.

$42000 , FUCK THAT MUCH .I SUPOSE YOU GET PAID WHAT YOUR WORTH, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GET ANOTHER JOB.

[inlinefour]

$42000 , FUCK THAT MUCH .I SUPOSE YOU GET PAID WHAT YOUR WORTH, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GET ANOTHER JOB.

I guess someone who has never worked a day of his life would not be actually qualified to have an opinion regarding pay and worth...