NZ Police public image

[Ixion]

The police have been aware for a long time that public confidence is falling. The last survey I read, (about 2000 - 2001) said that the major source of dissapointment was lack of follow up to complaints, not heavy handed policing of the roads, that caused the bulk of the dissatisfaction.

It's both actually. Bear in mind that 90% of the public are essentially law abiding. The only contact they will ever have with the police in the course of their lives is either when they are the victims of a crime (most commonly burglary/theft); or when they get a traffic ticket.

Before the police were responsible for traffic duties, it may have taken several days for Joe Public had someone come round and look at his burglary. But that contact was the only interaction Joe had with the police, and they were on his side. So he was willing to say "Yeah, took them three days to come round, but I guess they're busy as hell". Joe regarded the police as being "on his side" (Those bastige traffic cops were another matter)

But now, the day after the burglary, like as not Joe gets a speeding ticket. From the police. Who manifestly are now not on his side. So Joe thinks "Hummph. They haven't got time to come round to my burglary. But they've got time to give me a ticket. How come when I'm cast as the criminal there's plenty of police to pull me up. But when I'm the victim the police don't want to know."

Which may be unfair , but is human nature.

But - having said that, I must say that I do think there is some validity in the comments about the attitude of the police having changed somewhat, from a "partnership with the public" to "the public are the enemy". I suspect this is carry over from the VicRoads worship at headquarters. I certainly think that the attitude of the Victoria police force can be summed up as terrorise everyone. I don't really think the Victoria paradigm is suitable for a free country.

I think that the police (not necessarily anyone here, just "police" as an abstract entity) do need to look at how they regard the public. Like I said, 90% of the public regard themselves as lawabiding (ie they don't consider themselves as criminals). In some cases this may be self delusiuon, but in most cases it is valid. The guy who gets a ticket for 111kph does not consider himself as being in the same league as the guy who knocks an old lady down and steal her handbag. Or a burglar. Nor should he, but the attitude of the police (once again, not anyone here) all too often comes across as equating the two. Joe Public thinks "I'm no criminal". And resents the implication that he is. Since it is the police who are implying that he is a criminal, he feels anti toward the police.

[Lou Girardin]

No! I'm saying you should at least attempt to educate yourself on a topic before being excessively outspoken about it. Something that is seriously lacking around this thread.

A lot of us are reasonably well educated Spud, it's just that we don't agree with you.

[scumdog]

It used to be RESPECT for authority. If fear of the Police is needed, then there are several good examples; Argentina, Chile, China, most of the Middle East, etc.
You don't really want that, do you?

Read my PM to you Lou.
Respect for ANY authority is gone in a lot of cases for some and the only thing that kept them in line was fear (cane, boot up the arse) and now that is gone.

I'm only talking about a small minority here but boy! do they create a lot of mayhem out there with their crimes.

I guess 'fear' was maybe a bit strong a word to use but you get my drift.;

[Funkyfly]

Wow geez, some people actually 'APPLIED' to suffer daily verbal abuse, the constant threat of being assaulted/killed and whats even more they expected to be paid for it? what effrontery.
.

Grow up mate, if you apply for a job and dont know what it entails then your an idiot. Sheesh.

Unfortunately and somewhat stupidly maybe they actually thought that they could help a few people. I've got a degree and all that, i could make twice what i make in the private sector. But why should i expect others to do a job for me i didn't have the balls to do myself?

.

For those people in ANY job trying to help people hat off to them! But if youre trying to put all cops in the "im doing this for society" basket then you are very one eyed my friend cause theres a whloe basket over there filled with cops, its has a giant sign on it reading "POWER, Get your power here!"

No thats right cops have no right to complain. Just grin and take it on the chin, you don't have the same rights as all those other 9 to 5'ers.

Everyone can complain. But if you expect anyone to listen maybe you should listen to others! All you cops do is bash those that say they see a problem in the force and it seems to be getting worse. I dont recall one of you saying "gee we didnt realise how people view us thanks for that, you were treated wrong, we do need to work on that" its all "we have to deal with this, we have to handle that, moan, groan, boo hoo"

Thats right Funky and I'm sure there are people just like you willing to replace them, if your English was any better I'm sure you would be down there right now. After all how could you turn down a job that offers you average/poor pay, terrible working conditions and none of the rights every single other worker in the country has.

I at least have a smidgen of respect for Lou's opinions, at least he has been in similar shoes and has a degree (dare i say it) of wisdom. But unfortunately you have none of that.

and here come the personal attacks, "i have a degree, you cant spell yadda yadda" "you have no wisdom" - thats nice mate, i appreciated your comments, i will try and work on my english.

Yawn.

[scumdog]

I do my job, I do it the best I can, I am too old to even think about this "power trip" thing (let you know when I see someone who does have a "power trip" thing).

The most serious neg. comments I've had from anybody have been on this site.

I've never 'bashed' anybody.

I have never abused anybody.

I have as much fun as I can doing the job.

I don't give a fat rats arse about the members who post neg. comments on this site because I know in any society there are those who would NEVER find things completely to their satisfaction and whose reason 'd' etre' seems to be to complain.

The complaints are hollow shells, I mean WHAT is the complaining going to change?

Public opinion? meh, only bitching I get is from my riding mates and I give it back to them too.

Funkfly et al, keep going as you are if it makes you happy, I don't feel a need a change is due on MY part until I get some REAL feed-back that I'm not doing the right thing, THEN I'll happily change my ways/attitude etc.

Cheers guys

[Lou Girardin]

The police have been aware for a long time that public confidence is falling. The last survey I read, (about 2000 - 2001) said that the major source of dissapointment was lack of follow up to complaints, not heavy handed policing of the roads, that caused the bulk of the dissatisfaction.

This to me suggests that the poor resourcing of general policing is a bigger factor than any road policing issues. In fact a 9 day survey of 750 people over the Easter period showed that 47.6% felt that road policing was about right at the moment. A further 22% said that police should be even tougher on the roads than the currently are. Only 27.8% said they thought the polcie were being too strict on the roads. If you had been here for more than five minutes you would have seen previously that I have always advocated increasing general police resources and leaving raod policing at it current level.

This survey was taken after a well publicised multiple fatality involving the dreaded boy-racers. It is a trifle suspect. As I've said before the number of dissatisfied people mirror the number of tickets issued very closely, too close to be coincidence.
Then there's all the anecotal evidence of dissatisfaction, general public discontent. Kiwi's are well known for saying what they think is expected of them in public. Their private opinions are often very different. I meet a lot of people daily, no-one has a good word to say about the ticket frenzy. Look at the marked change in treaty attitudes since Brash's speech, people became much more vocal when they thought they had 'official' support.

[James Deuce]

this absolutely personifies what is wrong here... The police motto is "Building safer communities togeather" Note that word "togeather"... in other words the police state in their motto that they want to work WITH the public... All the police reps here are doing is to argue AGAINST what many are trying to say... that the police force needs a major shakeup... it's an "us vs them" thing... all the police reps here have bleated about the poor "cops on the street"... but NOTHING about the poor public that feels a rapidly increasing disatisfaction with the NZ police force. There have been NO suggestions from any one of our police reps about how WE the public could better work with the Police... all we are told is that we the public don't understand how difficult the job is...

Like it or lump it, the disatisfaction is rising... now you can blame it on the media, lack of public perception... the Government, commissioner, you gand daddy's dog... but... the disatisfaction IS rising... thats a fact!

To cap it all off Spud has now resorted to a thinly deguised pattern of abuse... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...postcount=1094 and he also tells us that WE THE PUBLIC... (quote) "...should at least attempt to educate yourself on a topic before being excessively outspoken about it. Something that is seriously lacking around this thread." http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...postcount=1095 is Spud seriously suggesting that unless we the public are not "educated" on the subject we can't express an opinion? Do you honestly believe that Spud? Lets go further... who detirmines the right "education"? Are you suggesting that the public isn't knowledgeable about what it's like to be let down, abused, accused incorrectly, etc etc? Plus... I would seriously doubt your own education on the subject... all you police reps here... you do NOT know what it's like to be a mere "member of the public" these days. So before any of you start lecturing to the public about needing to become "educated" on a subject before having an opinion, take a long hard look in the mirror... and for once... stop and listen to what we say... because we just may have a point!

Look, just to reiterate the point, I think you guys have an agenda, and you are filtering everything you see posted by anyone who works for the Police, or heaven forfend, anyone who might stick up for the individual employed by the Police posting here.

I work in IT. My professional life is an unrelenting wall of shit hurled at me for not knowing the resolution to someone's problem with a piece of software written in 1986 for an Atari, and ported to the PC under Windows 3.1, and why doesn't it work on Windows XP and you IT guys are all useless and liars. Somehow this translates into using black humour to cope with "Stupid Users". Gee, how could THAT possibly happen. Look, I know most computer users AREN't stupid - they just appear that way to people who know more.

Yelling at the guy at the front line is a complete waste of time (no disrespect intended spudchucker, et al). If you REALLY want to change things, there is a political and consultative process to use. This is a motorcycle site. It is supposed to be a community sharing the spirit of motorcycling, not an opportunity to make attacks on individuals about policies that they have limited influence on. If you are employed by a corporate, then you will know that the "consultative process" used by corporate management to address their employees concerns is a farce. It is no different in the NZ Police Force.

Cut these guys some slack will ya? Bleating on an Internet forum in an aggressive fashion won't change anything except your own blood pressure, and maybe that of someone who is already fully aware that people think he sucks because the media told them to think that.

[Funkyfly]

No body is in charge of a persons life other than themselves. As for the rest of your post you've missed every point.

If nobody is in charge its called anarchy.

Here is my point - Many Cops have are power tripping and have serious attitude problems, this is causing a public backlash that will get greater and greater until the average joe wont stop to help an office in trouble,opps that's already happened.

Case in point - This is a personal experience not an opinion and or assumption.

Travelling to Tekuiti I passed two cars up a long hill. One of the cars was a plain cop car who proceeded to pull me over and ticket me for passing on double yellow lines. He had a rather large smirk on his face (unless he was deformed) and what looked to be his wife and kids in the cop car were laughing. I stated I had passed on white lines and that I had pulled in on the broken yellow lines, the officer stated "there are no white lines, its double yellow all the way up the hill" I sad no, there is a strip of white you can pass on, at this stage he seemed to get bored, gave me a ticket and took off with his kids in the back laughing and pointing as they passed. I went back and measured the length of the white lines and the broken yellow and proceeded to write a letter explaining there had been a mistake, I get a letter back telling my my case had been considered and that my argument was rejected, Shocked I tracked down the person who had rejected my letter, Here is how the conversation played out.......

Me - "why did you reject it?"
Rejecter -"Well I considered your word against the officers, I believed the officer"
Me - "did you send him out to check the bit of road in question?"
Rejecter - "nope"
Me - "well how can you reject my application if you haven't checked the evidence"
rejecter - "I believe the officer, you can take it to court in Tekuiti"

Sheesh, this is that the public are dealing with, and I have a few other personal experiences where I did go to court and win, but never once did the officer say "sorry".

This is not an isolated incident! Wake up man, you have problems!

Thanks for the big finger as well, brilliant.

[MSTRS:Me]

The police have been aware for a long time that public confidence is falling. The last survey I read, (about 2000 - 2001) said that the major source of dissapointment was lack of follow up to complaints, not heavy handed policing of the roads, that caused the bulk of the dissatisfaction.

Ahem - it's now 2005. A lot has changed in 4/5 years.

[James Deuce]

If nobody is in charge its called anarchy.

No it's not. Anarchy is the absence of active government. You've confused it with nihilistic entropism like most people do.

[Funkyfly]

The complaints are hollow shells, I mean WHAT is the complaining going to change?

until I get some REAL feed-back that I'm not doing the right thing, THEN I'll happily change my ways/attitude etc.

Cheers guys

I think its great how we can pick and choose what feedback we think is REAL, that way we can all disregard the stuff we dont like. Wonderful.

[scumdog]

I think its great how we can pick and choose what feedback we think is REAL, that way we can all disregard the stuff we dont like. Wonderful.

I'm glad you agree with me, what a wonderful world we live in, I feel I have achieved something in my life and made such a positive change to so many others, well worth chucking in my freezing workers job for this one, I never knew I could meet so many nice people or I would have left the works sooner.

(You don't work for the media by any chance?? - they tend to pick and choose what stuff they like).

Keep at them windmills and don't drop your lance

[James Deuce]

I think its great how we can pick and choose what feedback we think is REAL, that way we can all disregard the stuff we dont like. Wonderful.

It's called research

[spudchucka]

A lot of us are reasonably well educated Spud, it's just that we don't agree with you.

Was I talking to you? Mr Drummer and Mr Funkfly are another kettle of bullshit.

[Funkyfly]

Was I talking to you? Mr Drummer and Mr Funkfly are another kettle of bullshit.

Yawn.

Everything i say relates to personal experience, no media hype, no 2nd, 3rd hand stories.

I wish to express my feelings relating to my own personal experiences.

You cops (a collective whole) are getting worse in my opinion, End of story.

Argh, that feels soo much better.

Thank you for your time.