If in doubt, gas it out. Really?

[Sparkz]

This is something where I find theory and practice don't meet up so well. Maybe somebody can clear it up for me.

If in doubt, gas it out.

The Stranger brought that little saying up in another post and it reminded me to ask the question. I have heard it before, and read it in The Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code, but I am buggered if it works for me.

If I find myself in a corner too hot, and running wide, I roll off the throttle and the bike tightens up in the corner. If I roll on the throttle, I go even wider. Obviously chopping the throttle would be a crap idea, I am talking about rolling it off just enough to tighten up for the corner.

So when does giving it gas help when you are in a tight spot?

[avgas]

sounds like you need to get a bit of dirt experience. The instance is where you steer with the rear instead of the front. Forcing the bike to turn not the bars.
This differs from slingshoting a corner where the lean of the bike dictates how well the corner is performed by increasing the g-force.
Its something that is all science and yet all natural. Someday you just get it - like countersteering. I can't explain how to do it, you just have to try it for yourself.
If you cant get it in a bike - find yourself a nice rear wheel drive car and plant it in the corner and steer out of the side windows.
Don't think - Feel

[discotex]

So when does giving it gas help when you are in a tight spot?

Gas cracked on takes weight off the front wheel lowering the chance of the front washing out.

If the rear steps out and you chop the gas you're toast (instant high-side). Keep the gas on and drift

Twist of the Wrist covers it pretty well. Keeping the gas on a little keeps the weight balanced to the available grip.

Basically if you're at the limit of grip rolling off the gas is likely to push the front over the edge. Better to power/counter-steer and pray. If that doesn't work you were probably stuffed anyway.

(don't nail the throttle wide open.. just keep the gas cracked on)

[CookMySock]

Gas cracked on takes weight off the front wheel lowering the chance of the front washing out.

If the rear steps out and you chop the gas you're toast (instant high-side). Keep the gas on and drift

Twist of the Wrist covers it pretty well. Keeping the gas on a little keeps the weight balanced to the available grip.

Basically if you're at the limit of grip rolling off the gas is likely to push the front over the edge. Better to power/counter-steer and pray. If that doesn't work you were probably stuffed anyway.

(don't nail the throttle wide open.. just keep the gas cracked on)

I've been road-riding only 7 months and ALL of this is fucken excellant advice. I have been trying it out for the last six weeks, and the bike is so so sooo much better planted, and now my cornering feels balanced instead of like I'm riding around it on the front wheel.

Sit back, power off and slow up to the corner, look up, tip in and simultaneously roll the throttle off overrun and into coast mode, and feel the magic. Soon you will be rolling more than just coast mode in. Thanks to the folks to explained it to me.

And yeah if you are feeling really screwed FFS DO NOT roll it off or brake hard, just shoulder out and bar push harder and feel the fear and do it, and live !

Steve

[slimjim]

Time..... and....... book yourself into a Track Day...... Your Learn The Basic's soooo fucking easy ..... that the pratice is on the road....

i enjoy the track days that are at manfield... Book ......As its Seeing ... Feeling.... Knowing......i must admit it took time to come out of a corner... power drifting. nope power control rear wheel gas cracked . its so...cool .an the xjr just ripes tires.... however its taught by the lads that explained , then followed , then allowed me to learn while given advice.. its control.. yup ... mate an i've been riding nearly.. 43yrs..

[slofox]

As long as you keep enough gas on to keep the rear down on the road, a little judicious use of the REAR brake can help bleed off the excessive speed in the situation you describe....please note I said JUDICIOUS.......don't slam the thing on or you will arse off real quick.....and it does take some practice. Try it when you are not in any danger - works in a cage as well.......

[Pwalo]

I think the problem is created before you get to the corner. Unless you're on a race track each corner is going to be different, and you need to be a bit more careful with your approach speed and set up.

The idea is to have a constant, or preferably slowly opening throttle through the corner. To do this you need to be in the appropriate location, at the appropriate speed, and in the appropriate gear. Simple really. Slow down your approach, and only get back on the gas when you can see the exit of the corner. And if you really like to go fast go and do a track day.

[xwhatsit]

Sit back, power off and slow up to the corner, look up, tip in and simultaneously roll the throttle off overrun and into coast mode, and feel the magic. Soon you will be rolling more than just coast mode in. Thanks to the folks to explained it to me.

Everything's kind of amplified on my bike due to poor suspension, bendy frame and forks etc., but you'll feel even more planted if you slow down a little more and actually keep some positive acceleration on throughout the corner. Overrun through a corner has me filling my pants, neutral coasting is a little better (still scary though; I've grabbed a false neutral (or real neutral) once or twice downhill, not at all relaxing), but actually keeping the power on has the bike the most settled by far. I mean throughout the corner, not just winding it on at the apex. Means you have to come into the corner slower and set up your lines further in advance though. To anybody from the SMC reading -- I don't know if it's any faster than just flopping it in then blatting out of the apex, but road-riding has nowt to do with going fast.

Slow in, fast out; not just for four wheels.

[The Stranger:Me]

Gas cracked on takes weight off the front wheel lowering the chance of the front washing out.

If the rear steps out and you chop the gas you're toast (instant high-side). Keep the gas on and drift

Twist of the Wrist covers it pretty well. Keeping the gas on a little keeps the weight balanced to the available grip.

Basically if you're at the limit of grip rolling off the gas is likely to push the front over the edge. Better to power/counter-steer and pray. If that doesn't work you were probably stuffed anyway.

(don't nail the throttle wide open.. just keep the gas cracked on)

Pretty much 100% what I would have said.
Plus it increases ground clearance and in a similar fashion to trail braking usually settles the chassis.

[The Stranger:Me]

Basically if you're at the limit of grip rolling off the gas is likely to push the front over the edge. Better to power/counter-steer and pray. If that doesn't work you were probably stuffed anyway.

Plus consider the all important bullshit and excuses later.
Which sounds better.

I squeeled like a little girl, panicked, grabbed a handfull of brake and washed out the front end - fuck I'm a looser.

OR

I went in there under full power, lit up the rear and it bucked me into a high side -fuck I've got a set of kahunas!

These are very important considerations. If you are going to fuck it up, fuck it up in style!

[Sparkz]

All good advice, thanks guys.

Incidently, I have been on a few trackdays already, but it is very different to the road. You know exactly what each corner is like and can plan ahead. On the road, a decreasing radius blind corner happens with little to no warning.

I guess the point is I am getting into a bad habit of rolling off to tighten in a corner, instead of tipping it in more and cracking the throttle. Rather have the rear loaded to give traction than overload the front.

[notme]

So when does giving it gas help when you are in a tight spot?

Probably not quite what you meant, but a friend had a moment with his brand new Goldwing at a set of lights - somehow he let it start falling from stationary just as the light turned green, sitting at a right hand turn. He gave it gas and put his feet up, and so pulled one big arse heavy Goldwing uprght and continued on his way in one fluid motion.

The physics are somewhat different if you are talking about cornering, but you asked the question, and this was one case where the gas helped!

[Dani-D]

I'd say if it was me and I aws committed to the turn and it was running out fast, I'd be trailbraking alittle, rolling the gas to compensate for the drag and leaning, leaning alot more than I already was.

Touch the front brake and i go striaght off or lowside.

Snap the gas closed, more likely a lowside then the outside bank.

Pour on the gas, smoke the rear and look back at my bike from upsidedown, in the air, somewhere infront of it so it can run me down. Highsides are NASTY

Lean in more, thinking "wedge the seat side into my butt crack, hook my knee on the other side, look under the inside mirror, ignore my toe scraping on the road - thats normal - nothing to worry about, relax, your gonna make it and this really is FUN!" Seems to work so far.

Practice hanging right off the side of your bike, you'll probably be quite surprised at how the first few time you'll over exagerate it and actually start turning tighter than you need too. This lets you know you have a little more lean there if you ever need it.

[FzerozeroT]

It may be good advice, but if you get into a situation where it is applicable and you stop to have a think about it then you're already stuffed.
I'm already on the gas everywhere I go so doesn't apply to me :P

[henry]

I'd say if it was me and I aws committed to the turn and it was running out fast, I'd be trailbraking alittle, rolling the gas to compensate for the drag and leaning, leaning alot more than I already was.

And by lean he means counter steer. It aint gonna lean by will alone. Push on the bars, drop it in and roll on the power.