riding with lights on or off

[bluninja]

Just a simple question. Where is the evidence that riding with lights on has any effect on safety in normal daylight conditions?

I accept that there are benefits to a bikes electrical system, but so far the case has not been proven to me that they aid in rider safety. Yeah yeah...I know....lights on.....easier to see....obvious really...who needs evidence.

So what happens when all vehicles light up all the time? a bike headlight is lost amongst all the car headlights (particulalry when filtering). There's already been some posts to suggest that in certain conditions it can hide the bike, or lead to misjudgment of speed and distance....causing people to pull out WHEN they have seen you.

I tend to ride with lights on most of the time, but I would be interested in hard evidence to show the safety benefits.

TTFN

[Sharkey]

"Hard Evidence" is difficult to come by. Someone does a study, someone else does a study - you know how it is. I do know that Volvo has traditionally hard wired their lights on, and they claim all sorts of safety advantages. Other vehicle manufacturers disagree.

It seems to me that the benefits to the electrics, combined with the POTENTIAL for improved visibility is all that needs to be considered. Lights on!

[RiceBurner]

Bluninja - I can't give you hard evidence because there is none.

I can only tell you of my own experiences. (20 years riding, 16 years on road riding in all weathers, 7 years of London commuting all year round (80 mile round trips)).

I have found that it doesn't matter if you have your lights on or not (I tend to have them on becuase it has become general practise in the UK, and is better for riding with other bikers) :

If they ain't looking - they ain't gonna see you!

One interesting thing I have discovered is that traffic is more prepared to "give way" (once they've seen you) to a brightly coloured bike (eg Bright Kawasaki Green, or Reflexite-d Orange - See the MirthCycle at www.riceburner.co.uk). This worked well in London because London drivers are USED to having bikes come through - so in fact are MORE aware of bikes than most. (doesn't make it any easier though!!). This was very noticable when I moved to Nottingham for a while - the level of bike awareness was much lower, but it also worked for me a bit - on occasion I could get away with things I couldn't get away with in London (eg being a bit rude ). It's when you get out into the country that you have to step up the awareness.

Also if riding at NIGHT, when all the cars have their ultra-modern, ultra-bright dip beams on - bikes are INVISIBLE. So you HAVE to ride defensively, in fact - ride as if you ARE invisible. This is PERFECT practise for riding at all times.

If you assume at all times that a) they are not looking for you, and b) you ARE invisible, then you will last MUCH longer than if you are relying on cagers to see your bright lights.

Remember - the only person responsible, or indeed concerned, about your safety, is YOU.


Additionally - assuming "they're all out to get you" is bad, mmmkay, because it's negative thinking and detracts from the riding enjoyment.

[bluninja]

RB, agree with your comments. I've never seen any hard evidence so far (not looked really hard) most studies are inconclusive. Being a recent import to Kiwiland I too have commuted in all weathers on my bike in the UK, mostly around Portsmouth. I've even had someone inadvertantly stub a fag out on my arm when filtering on the M25 .....and I had my lights on

TTFN

[marty]

Originally posted by Sharkey
"Hard Evidence" is difficult to come by. Someone does a study, someone else does a study - you know how it is. I do know that Volvo has traditionally hard wired their lights on, and they claim all sorts of safety advantages.

have you ever seen a volvo moving at over the speed limit though? no wonder no-one gets hurt driving them. wouldn't wanna hit one though

[Lou Girardin]

Any evidence is purely anecdotal, except lights on laws for all vehicles in Sweden, I believe, has resulted in a fall in accidents for all vehicles.
But, we must have all noticed how much more obvious a bike is with it's lights on during the day.
Lou

[Dave]

130 decibal motogp bike is quite noticable as well- yeah, bring it on.

[Drunken Monkey]

G'day all,

Just like to add a further option you didn't discuss above - replace your standard 55/60W bulbs with 90/100W bulbs. I use the bright bulbs on low beam and don't have too much trouble being seen. It's a 5 minute job and you can always swap back your original 55/60's when you drop your bike off at a testing station for a WOF (I've never had a bike shop fail the WOF on lights).

Something else to conside, anyway.

[Coldkiwi]

good idea... provided your light housing and reflector can handle the extra heat your bulbs put out. dunno quite how you find out whether a particular model bike can handle the jandel of the upgrade other than trial and error.

[Kwaka-Kid]

yeah and/or ur magneto or whatever can take hte extra strain, by the sounds of things these modern bikes can/are made for lights to be hardwired on so if somhow turned off would fry reg/rec's all day long due to too much voltage or somthing.

anyways i spent my first year/s on the CB250 without any headlight on, i discussed it with the old man and we decided it is such an underpowerd bike anyways that we want maximum voltage heading to that little sparky :P.  hehe! was well worth it too. dont think i could have noticed difference, he says i should have.

now i try to ride with headlights on and pretty much do, but there is the odd ocassion where i forget... im SURE size/colour of bike helps... as after getting off the bright red big 750 onto ZXR400 /almost sky blue, i had 10x more near misses then usual (cage drivers fault) which put the usual figure from 10 up t oaround 100

anyways i do agree with RB, lights or no lights, if they aint looking at you, they aint gonna see you! -yay 4 days till tracktime.

[Big Dog]

2 things first yes I do get more people seeing me on the eleven over my old 250cc.
Second, what no comment from kk about how night riding is safer without lights?


LMAO sorry dude cheap shot but I was sure when i saw your post it would include somthing along those lines

Maybe being over 18 has finally kicked in?

[fergie]

I always have my lights on (hard wired).  in addition I always  flash my lights at any vehicles i see on a side road about to pull out into traffic, it's amazing how many cars start to move only to slam on their brakes when they catch sight of the lights.  i'm sure it's saved me on more than one occasion.

cheers

ferg

[Coldkiwi]

good call fergie... I've done that.. although you need to make sure you don't confuse them into thinking you're indicating that they should go! I don't flick them tho.. i just hit 'em with the high beams to make sure they know I'm there and have seen me

[bluninja]

Flashing your lights approaching a vehicle on a side road....you're lucky they don't pull out thinking you're signalling to them. Isn't this what the horn is for, just a quick toot to attract their attention and make them look for the source of the sound...rather than .....full on for 5 minutes chasing them AFTER they have pulled out/cut you up.

Seems to me if they are not using their eyes you need to assualt their other senses....though the smell of shit when they pull out 1 meter from your front wheel won't really help you much

 

TTFN

[Coldkiwi]

how timely this thread is... I had to ride the ZX-6 into work today with no headlight cause it blew after running for 5 seconds on warm up!

so where's a good place to get H4 bulbs? I guess repco will have them if they're the same bulbs for bikes as they are for cars?