Licence Restrictions - WTF?

[Wolf]

G'day all

Just after some thoughts and opinions.

I don't know if this thread has come up before as I'm a relative n00b to these fora.

Does anyone else here think the licence restrictions are insanely out-of-date?

Specifically the "no more than 250cc" stipulation, which goes by the false premise that a Suzuki RGV250 Gamma (33.6kW (45hp), 37Nm, top speed around 184km/h) is "safer" for newbies than a Suzuki LS400 (17.9kW (24hp), 26Nm, top speed around 130km/h).

I mean, WTF? For a large number of years now, the potential has been there for total newbies (albeit with a fair few more dollars than experience) to buy a device that would laminate them across the scenery faster than my "dangerous" full-licence-only LS400 "Savage" (more like "Tamed and Neutered").

I think it's high time the LTSA looked at the cc-based restriction critically and changed to a kW-based system (not unlike their "<2kW requires only a learner car licence").

The "less than 250cc" rule might have been fine back in the dim, distant past but the diversity of bikes over the last few years is such that my 1990 LS400 is less powerful than a '82 GSX250E in terms of straight power - before factoring in the power to weight ratio (which puts the RGV250 Gamma way ahead of a Suzuki VS750 "Intruder")

I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, suggesting that the law be changed to allow a newbie to ride an Intruder (even tho' my Great-uncle learned on gravel roads on a 1340cc Harley without a helmet back in the olden days and having an Intruder for a first bike would probably be safer than an RGV250 - better tyres for a start).

What I propose is that a cap is put at, say, 25kW (GN250 range) which will prevent newbies killing themselves (and possibly others) on some of the high-performance mini-crotch-rockets out there (we do want them to survive and become long-term members of the biker community).

Admittedly, it would also allow newbies to ride some of the "big bikes" (like a Tamed and Neutered LS650 "Savage") but as most of those have got better road handling than most of the smaller bikes (not running on effing "razor-blades" for a start) that might not be such a bad thing.

Thoughts? Opinions? Flames? (Donning asbstos underwear already)

[inlinefour]

At the risk of getting lynched and bad repped.

I think that the resrictions are a bloody good idea, for reasons that the younger generation won't or refuse to understand.
I also think that cars should have some sort of restriction also.

Just wait until you have a mate that kills himself after going from 250cc to 1000cc

[jrandom]

What *I* want to know, right, is... why would anyone, full licence or otherwise, CHOOSE to ride a Savage?



The graduated UK 125cc/<= 33hp/full system is probably better in theory, but it's a bit on the annoyingly picky and complicated side.

Our system works well enough. It ain't broke. Does anyone have data on precisely how many non-full-licence riders have creamed themselves on fast 250s?

In the end, anyway, motorcycles are devices for culling the gene pool. Stupidity is swiftly rewarded. You can only do so much to cushion that with a licencing system.

[Skunk]

In the end, anyway, motorcycles are devices for culling the gene pool.

How did I get though?
I'd like to see restrictions on cars. (200+ hp ,for a Learner? WTF :unsure: )

[outlawtorn]

I reckon we should keep the restrictions, I am a GZ250 rider but I would have probably seen my arse many times if I had a bigger bike, yes it is frustrating but at the end of the day it is for the greater good.

We all need time to learn how to handle the bike and traffic.

What they should do is stop these snotty little shit-fucks in their suped-up boy racer cars. What the hell does a 16-17 year old know about driving a Mazda RX7 or a super fast Subaru? These are the kids who should have restrictions!!!

[Waylander]

got my licence in the states so i didnt have to deal with the graduated licence system but i rekon its a good idea. it keeps younger and (sometimes) imature riders from getting something that is way too powerfull for them ie. the yamaha R1 or suzuki Hyabusa. you see kids like that everywhere back home had thier licence for a week and they are blasting down the roads pulling wheelies and lane spliting at 150k. they are the real reason bikers have such a lousy rep in the states not the gangs and all.

[White trash]

Why the fuck would any one want a 400 "Mildly annoyed" when there's a perfectly good RGV250 with 50hp available legaly?

The restrictions are a problem how?

Seriously though, a hell of a lot of newbies in the States are buying R1s and 'Busas 'cause they saw them in a rap vid and they got lots of cred man.

cc limit is the easiest way to police nooBs.

[Waylander]

Why the fuck would any one want a 400 "Mildly annoyed" when there's a perfectly good RGV250 with 50hp available legaly?

The restrictions are a problem how?

Seriously though, a hell of a lot of newbies in the States are buying R1s and 'Busas 'cause they saw them in a rap vid and they got lots of cred man.

cc limit is the easiest way to police nooBs.

haha got it in just before you did WT

[Slipstream]

I reckon we should keep the restrictions, I am a GZ250 rider but I would have probably seen my arse many times if I had a bigger bike, yes it is frustrating but at the end of the day it is for the greater good.

We all need time to learn how to handle the bike and traffic.

What they should do is stop these snotty little shit-fucks in their suped-up boy racer cars. What the hell does a 16-17 year old know about driving a Mazda RX7 or a super fast Subaru? These are the kids who should have restrictions!!!

I agree.

I mean you have to do a handling test for a bike licence.
Why not one for a car?

[Skyryder]

Specifically the "no more than 250cc" stipulation, which goes by the false premise that a Suzuki RGV250 Gamma (33.6kW (45hp), 37Nm, top speed around 184km/h) is "safer" for newbies than a Suzuki LS400 (17.9kW (24hp), 26Nm, top speed around 130km/h).

Herein lies the problem with your solution. CC rating is understood by everybody.

Kilowatts horsepower and Newton meter's, complicated and subject to debate.

Skyryder

[Two Smoker]

I dont see a problem with the licence graduation system... This is because you can go from a GN125 to a GN250 to a GSX-R250 to a RGV250 (ah bless the Suzuki gods) and learn something from all of those bikes with out breaking the licence rules.... a step from a RGV250 for a GSX-R600 will be a hell of alot nicer than a step from a 30hp bike to a 110hp bike....

[dveus]

The biggest problem I see with the curent licensing system is that it will take me 2 full years and $300 to get my full. Also the learners -> restricted doesn't really change anything in the way of restrictions, so to me seems to be more of a money grabbing exercise than that of public safety.

[Riff Raff]

Also the learners -> restricted doesn't really change anything in the way of restrictions, so to me seems to be more of a money grabbing exercise than that of public safety.

Silly - you are allowed to do speed limit now! Oh yeah - so it didn't change anything!

[avgas]

i agree, lets allow everyone only 50cc for learners, 250 for restricted, 400 for semi restricted, 600 4 / 900 twin for almost full, and then you get your full.
At the end of the day mate - you can still die at 30kph, so a 50cc is too big for these wankers. I say make it a quick death on RGV, i mean whos parents/mates let them get it in the first place.
My old man said i could only borrow money from him to buy a 150, so i made it a fucken fast 150 should have seen his face when i got it back from the 'mechanics' and caught up to his 955i.

[Wolf]

I also think that cars should have some sort of restriction also.

Likewise. Nothing more powerful than a stock Hillman Imp for newbie drivers - AFTER they have held a Full motorcycle licence for a year (just so the stupid bastards will know what it's like out there and look out for motorbikes)