Flashing stop lights, traffic light triggers, and wheel lights

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 30th January 2005, 14:30

Originally Posted by allun

A permanent magnet (i.e. "normal magnet") has a steady magnetic field around it.

The other method i am thinking of is to have an electromagnet (basically a magnet you can switch on an off) and pulse it at the right frequency to cause the most disturbance to the road sensor.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The electro magnet sounds like a go. We have plenty of spare charge in most modern bikes and thou I know nothin of these things I would think they would put out more power per gram of weight. You would want to put an auto off switch say on a timer or somethin or it would have to be wired up though the key and that means some of your market would not bother but a plug and go with auto off would be cool. No flat battery. I remember the first time I put a rear window demister in my Viva way back when I was a young fellow Had to push start it a few times because I got distracted and forgot to turn it off.

Keep at it and I hope it turns in to somethin good for you. I just run the reds now if no one is around.

Not many cameras down here.

**notme** · 30th January 2005, 14:53

Originally Posted by Gixxer 4 ever

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Thanks for taking the time to read in the first place and asking questions! I know that there is a lot in this world that i know shit all about, but i'm not afraid to speak up if i DO know the answers! :-)

If I ask a question (usually on an internet forum such as this, in this day and age) I appreciate it when someone takes the time to answer it if they have the necessary knowledge - so in my mind the way to repay that is to contribute back to the general good karma of the world

Funnily enough I stopped last week whilst riding home from work to help a biker that was pulled up off the road, and had a very similar conversation to the above with the guy. (not a KB'er - I asked) He had been running with the petcock on reserve accidentally so had run himself dry, I keep a 1.5m piece of fuel line under my seat for just such an occasion, well actually it was originally in case i ran out of fuel but it's never been put the that use luckily! Anyway i siphoned off some fuel for the dude, and he was very thankful and offered me some cash, but in the same vein as above i told him bugger the money, it's like 2 bucks worth of petrol, just remember to stop and do what you can next time you see a fellow biker on the side of the road! We're all in this together aye.

Anyway that was a bit OT ...... I better go play with the traffic lights some more. I WILL get this working if it's possible!

**Wonko** · 30th January 2005, 15:45

2 other things you can do are :
Rev the engine - makes the alternater work producing a larger electromagnetic field.
Brake hard so the shocks load up ad the bike sinks lower to the ground. More metal moved into the field.

The lights your taking about testing on wouldn't be the ones outside the BK by Mt Wellington?

**notme** · 30th January 2005, 16:20

Nah although I have had trouble with those ones too.... The ones a few metres from work are the intersection of Carbine road and Clemow drive. Try turning right out of Clemow drive....I've tried no less than 7 different bikes on those lights, none have ever been able to trigger that right turn.

**crashe** · 30th January 2005, 17:42

if ya come out west....
1. Massey - check out the one on Royal Rd/ Makora Rd heading towards the Motorway.
But its the RIGHT HAND TURN ONLY not the straight throu ok.

2. Te Atatu South - The other set is McLeod Rd turning right into Te Atatu Road heading towards the motorway.

3. Western Springs - And Great North Rd coming from the city to go towards the Zoo..... the straight ahead set of lights... man ya sit there for ages and ages.

These three are the worst ones that I can think of at the mo....

**notme** · 19th March 2005, 12:25

Sorry this took a while guys....but since the infamous Duck vs Kwaka incident (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...highlight=duck) I hadn't done much more research....

So anyway, I finished collating everything last night into a big fat folder - here are the important points followed by detailed explanations (geez....someone spends far too much time writing technical reports!:

1. Magnets probably won't work for you.
2. Positioning is critical.
3. The authorities seems to be very responsive to this issue.
4. Active triggering does always work but is not practical.

So, here's more detail on each point:
1. Magnets affect the sensors slightly, but over several dozen different experiments both in the lab and on the road, there were no outstanding results that suggest that magnets are a magic cure.
The magnet's field needs to cut the sensor's field in the right orientation and whilst moving - the relevant equations show that the faster the magnet moves the better, and considering where the sensors are on the road a motorbike is likely to only be moving slowly as it approaches them.
It seems that the main reason magnets seem to work is actually a secondary effect - products like the "green light trigger" give very detailed installation instructions, most of which are to do with where to stop at the lights "in order for the sensor to work the best." As it turns out, just stopping in the right place without a magnet will trip most lights most of the time, because you are giving the sensor the best possible chance of detecting you.

2. Following on from (1), the positioning of your bike relative to the sensor is crucial. I tried ASCII art in a post above and it came out crap, so I've attached photos to this post. If you stop as indicated in the photos, you should get a green light unless the sensor is really badly adjusted, or compeltely broken. The best way to trigger the sensors is to ride down the edge of the first sensor and stop OVER the edge of the second one. (I choose the right hand edge since i ride in that position on the road) The important thing is to stop OVER the sensor not past it. If it's just badly adjusted, you can try the usual tricks such as putting your centre stand down on the road briefly if you have one, or stopping and restarting the bike (starter motor spews out electromagnetic noise) - these things will have a markedly better chance of working now that you are in the best place for the sensor to detect you.

3. Again this follows on from (2) - If you call the council responsible for the lights you're having a problem with, they will actually send a traffic engineer out to retune the sensors! I called a few councils in Auckland and they seemed to be aware of the issue (bicyclists suffer this problem too) and they are willing to fix it. One council (nth shore) said they need to get a couple of complaints before they will do anything but the others seem willing to send someone out if you are polite, explain the issue clearly, and tell them the intersection, lane, direction, and time of day (some lights switch from timers to detection at certain times of the day).

4. I experimented with a couple of different EMP generators.....they seem to work really well but to be honest i havent really taken this much further because a) i have no problem at all the lights i commute thru any more now that i position myself properly on the road, b) the power consumption is quite high, and c) there could be other nasty side effects....anyone here with a pacemaker? :-)

So...that's what i found, positioning seems to be the best fix, followed by getting the councils involved if it's a light you come across often. I'm not saying the magnet products like Green Light Trigger don't work, just that the improvement is barely measureable in controlled experiments, and i believe that the testimonials on thier site are due to people following the instructions and starting to position themselves correctly, then thinking it's the magnet making the difference. If anyone wanted a super high power magnet anyway, I can get these thru work. The positioning is what works for me and everyone i have got to test the theory for me as well, and it all makes sense when you look at the relevant electromagnetics equations, so hopefully this post helps a few people - so i throw it out to you good people to try the positioning tricks, and report back here!

**inlinefour** · 19th March 2005, 17:59

If you supply a gadget to ensure the lights will change for me, then I'll buy one...

**DarkNinja** · 19th March 2005, 18:32

[QUOTE=allun]3. The final product is similar to the "firefly" as described here: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/edgeouts...apfivastl.html are these devices legal for cars/motorbikes in NZ? The document here: http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/rul...ting-2004.html doesn't mention wheel lights specifically..... additionally, what colours would be allowed for this type of device? i.e. would red be disallowed because the rules currently state that red lights must only face rearward?
[QUOTE]
Freakay... Our young enterprise team made a product called the firefly that was designed like that. I still havent developed a film we took of my bike using it but they look bloody awesome in action.
DN

**notme** · 20th March 2005, 10:50

Originally Posted by DarkNinja

Freakay... Our young enterprise team made a product called the firefly that was designed like that. I still havent developed a film we took of my bike using it but they look bloody awesome in action.
DN

Weird....yeah my bright red beast with red brake calipers and red ¨firefly" type lights looked awesome.....just be aware that like the flashing brake light, it is illegal to use on the road.....can´t be having us bikers being more visible now can we ???

**Wolf** · 25th June 2006, 22:18

Well, tonight I had the ideal opportunity to test Allun's theory about where you stop in relation to the sensors. I was the only vehicle coming up to the intersection, I had the red and the sensor grid was clearly visible on the road so I swerved to align my bike with the edge of the square , slowed and then, once I was on the sensor, braked hard to force the front (and thus the frame) to dive. I figured that any additional movement of the metal frame at the field would enhance my presence.

I glanced across in time to see the light for the other traffic switch to amber and then to red and I got my green light.

OK, one test is hardly conclusive so I will be putting the theory to the test at every opportunity.

Today was the first time since I got the bike that I was the only vehicle at a light-controlled intersection. I've taken to noting the presence of the rectangles at intersections so I'll be ready to try them out as the opportunity arises.

Will keep you all posted.

If it doesn't seem to work at any stage, I'll see if bouncing up and down on the bike or revving the engine will help trigger the sensor. The XT225 is a very small light bike - it's not exactly a sea of metal so it would be a good one for testing the trigger. If I can trip the lights, anyone on a larger, heavier bike should have more than enough metal to trigger it.

**Big Dave** · 25th June 2006, 22:32

*sigh* or you can just put your side stand down for a second.

**ZeroIndex** · 25th June 2006, 22:43

with the flashy lights, one of the goldwings on the ride i went on today, had flashy lights.. went left right left right.. (like a cop car, but just red lights)

**slopster** · 25th June 2006, 23:33

Dont fixed speed cameras use the same setup as traffic light to trigger them. You wouldn't want to increase your chances of getting caught.

**Wolf** · 25th June 2006, 23:47

Originally Posted by slopster

Dont fixed speed cameras use the same setup as traffic light to trigger them. You wouldn't want to increase your chances of getting caught.

AFAIK speed cameras work on radar to get an idea of how fast you're travelling and only trigger if you exceed a certain speed. Unless you're in a Stealth Bomber, they're going to detect you. The light sensors are supposed to detect a low speed, stopping, (or stopped) vehicle at the lights and use an electromagnetic sensor to detect the mass of metal.

As I do not speed these days, I have no reason to fear a speed camera - done my share of paying for the gummint's cocaine, P and kiddie porn when I was younger.

**Firefight** · 26th June 2006, 06:35

Originally Posted by allun

- in the states they have technology to allow emergency vehicles to carry a transciever that causes the lights in the ambo or firey's path to go green - have you heard of that at all FireFight mate?

hey Allun,

yes have heard of it, think I have some info about it at home, will check and pm you, hows your bike ?, havn,t seen you out our way much, are you still doing the band thing ?

F/F