Older Duc pondering.

[98tls]

Bit quiet at work today and myself and a fellow motorcyclist were sitting round (yea a lazy moment) talking bikes and in particular V-twins as we both ride them,as usual the conversation went back to old bevel drive Ducatis of which we are both fans of and in conversation i got to thinking why after they went water cooled did they persist with lying the motor that way which only made the engine unnecessarily long,take the 916 for example,yea it won 3/4 world championships but my pointless musing had me wondering if it could have been better again.As i say pointless but apart from riding them/mucking around with them i also seem to spend plenty of time thinking about themAnyone any got any thoughts?

[popelli]

why change a winning formula with their trade mark engine?

[dipshit]

why after they went water cooled did they persist with lying the motor that way which only made the engine unnecessarily long,

Probably to keep the weight lower and further forward I would be guessing...???

They actually design bikes to try to stop them from wheeling believe it or not...

[98tls]

why change a winning formula with their trade mark engine?

Yea yea obvious thing to say,ive said the same to myself.Am not having a crack at Ducati just a wee ponder as i said,for all the 916s success i can remember reading many articles concerning the problems they had getting it to handle on a racetrack,engine was to long/weight to far back,sure they overcame this but after they went watercooled they could have sat the same motor at a different angle therefore making it a whole different ball game ie weight etc

[98tls]

Probably to keep the weight lower and further forward I would be guessing...???

They actually design bikes to try to stop them from wheeling believe it or not...

Suzuki got it wrong by sitting the V-twin up thenwheelies are so annoying

[dipshit]

for all the 916s success i can remember reading many articles concerning the problems they had getting it to handle on a racetrack,engine was to long/weight to far back,

hmmm... so an L-twin moves the weight further back.

[AllanB]

I think its for the same reason that Harley run a 45 degree twin after 105 years. Tradition. including sound.

Would a 75 degree Ducati sound right...........

The 90 degree v-twin does give good engine balance, but on a pure sports bike I agree its length is a hindrance.

[98tls]

hmmm... so an L-twin moves the weight further back.

On a 916 in race trim there biggest problem handling wise was the weight being to far back which was well written about at the time,once again i will repeat i am not having a crack just wondering why after no longer having a reason to have it lying down and having said issues did they chose not to sit it up.

[98tls]

I think its for the same reason that Harley run a 45 degree twin after 105 years. Tradition. including sound.

Would a 75 degree Ducati sound right...........

The 90 degree v-twin does give good engine balance, but on a pure sports bike I agree its length is a hindrance.

Yea possibly Allan,ive no idea really as i say it just became a bit of a topic at work today,ive always found Ducatis history rather interesting and at times pretty entertaining which only serves to add to there flavour for me anyway.Along the way they have done some wonderful things but at times some woefully inept as well including some wonderful oppertunities missed at times to boot but once again just adds to the flavour.

[TLDV8]

Mike, i think the included angle was rotated rearward on the 916 (compared to a beveldrive) as they did on the TL1000 to get the crankshaft closer to the front axle but the rear cylinder can only rotate so far before the transmission/engine case gets in the way.
The 916 also has a very short swingarm (25mm shorter than a TL at its most extended setting) to keep the wheelbase low (1420mm?)
You only need to see a inline four beside any L Twin to see the problem loading the front.
The magnesium SSSA was around 25mm longer,i guess the eccentrics in the steering head would have almost had the front tyre kissing the front head under braking in WSB.
I think even on a old beveldrive,it is the front that lets go,nothing like your body dropping vertically mid corner as the front tucks.
The alternate for Ducati from a L layout is lost sales perhaps,even Desmodromics are not all that in a road bike these days but they still sell with even with more complex valve adjustment (head off).
Even with all that,they (916/998) still went around corners like nothing else,more complete/balanced overall package perhaps.

[98tls]

Mike, i think the included angle was rotated rearward on the 916 (compared to a beveldrive) as they did on the TL1000 to get the crankshaft closer to the front axle but the rear cylinder can only rotate so far before the transmission/engine case gets in the way.
The 916 also has a very short swingarm (25mm shorter than a TL at its most extended setting) to keep the wheelbase low (1420mm?)
You only need to see a inline four beside any L Twin to see the problem loading the front.
The magnesium SSSA was around 25mm longer,i guess the eccentrics in the steering head would have almost had the front tyre kissing the front head under braking in WSB.
I think even on a old beveldrive,it is the front that lets go,nothing like your body dropping vertically mid corner as the front tucks.
The alternate for Ducati from a L layout is lost sales perhaps,even Desmodromics are not all that in a road bike these days but they still sell with even with more complex valve adjustment (head off).

Gidday Les,just the man to explain my pondering.Funny what the old brain starts thinking about really.I wonder what would have come of them sitting it up and going from there a decade give or take before Suzuki did.

[Voltaire]

Imagine if Mike Hailwood had said " Sorry guys...bit busy at the moment, but thanks"
They probably would have gone bust in the mid 80's and be like Norton and Vincent......

[Forest]

Can't answer your question, but I know they kept on using the L-layout right through the 999 and the 1098.

Here's a photo of a 1098 without fairings.

[98tls]

Imagine if Mike Hailwood had said " Sorry guys...bit busy at the moment, but thanks"
They probably would have gone bust in the mid 80's and be like Norton and Vincent......

Imagine how many bikes they could have sold if they had built a true F1 600TT replica in the early 80s when it won the first of 4 titles instead of waiting forever then flogging off a not even remotely close to original basterd thing.Still for awhile they were consistant with fuck ups like the 89 900SS and my personal favourite (from experiance) the 89 750 sport.Mr Taglioni would have been glad to have left.

[Motu]

45deg is the best angle for a V twin - better utilization of space and more torque.