Fast and Safe

[bear]

Gees, Alan is going to be a hardcore biker soon at this rate, and he doesn't even own a bike.

Reading through some of the posts, it strikes me as to how would a system where people get to dictate safe speeds, or a decent increase (20-30kmh), be implemented. Surely, the next few years on the roads would be killer as people worked out what was good for them, and natural selection was allowed to take place.

[spudchucka]

And we can't just "keep the road deaths as low as possible" or we wouldn't have a transport system. We have to balance competing needs of safety and efficiency, and we have to allow for progress.

We should always strive for the safest possible traffic environment with a goal of keeping road deaths as low as possible. Efficiency and progress at the expense of human life isn't an option.

[spudchucka]

ok... the name calling is stopping or I'll lock the thread....

Spoil sport!

Opps, was that a name?

[spudchucka]

Oh dear, now you're on about the parrot's crack as well as mine. From bad to worse.

... but now you've edited it out.

I was going to point out the fact that you are the intellectual giant that started the name calling with this crack;

post 609
Your keep trotting out this nonsense like a demented parrot but it doesn't make it true.

but decided you weren't worth the bother and it was much more satisfying to me to simply tell you to GET FUCKED!


Sorry Blakamin.

[Alan Wilkinson]

I will not tease the nice policeman. I will not tease the nice policeman. I will not tease the nice policeman. ....

[Alan Wilkinson]

Reading through some of the posts, it strikes me as to how would a system where people get to dictate safe speeds, or a decent increase (20-30kmh), be implemented. Surely, the next few years on the roads would be killer as people worked out what was good for them, and natural selection was allowed to take place.

It's a good question. All I can say is that despite all the predictions of doom and gloom when it was done before (eg 80 -> 100 in NZ and removal of Fed 50 mph limit in US) nothing happened.

[Alan Wilkinson]

What you seem to forget is the population of NZ and the fact that for the size of population NZ has in fact roads that are more than reasonable. Go to another country, say Canada and go away from the cities, head north and see what their roads are like when you get away from the populated areas. Same could be said for the USA.
The models you base your arguements on all have large, densely populated areas.

I lived in Canada for 2 years. Its city roads were light years ahead of ours at the time and so were its highways. Sure it had the roughest logging roads in the forests but most people don't drive on them.

Denmark and Norway are very similar in population to NZ but their busy roads are out of sight better. Sure, Norway is huge, mountainous and frozen and the older roads up north are narrow and dangerous. Sweden has twice the population but twice the area of NZ. Again, all the roads we drove there were much better than our highways.

You just have to see what happens to tourists when they drive here. They smash and crash all over the place. But Kiwis don't do that when we drive overseas. In England we had to laugh when we got warnings about a little bend coming up from a couple of miles away. Here it wouldn't have rated a sign on most of our country roads.

[scumdog]

I lived in Canada for 2 years. Its city roads were light years ahead of ours at the time and so were its highways. Sure it had the roughest logging roads in the forests but most people don't drive on them.

Denmark and Norway are very similar in population to NZ but their busy roads are out of sight better. Sure, Norway is huge, mountainous and frozen and the older roads up north are narrow and dangerous. Sweden has twice the population but twice the area of NZ. Again, all the roads we drove there were much better than our highways.

You just have to see what happens to tourists when they drive here. They smash and crash all over the place. But Kiwis don't do that when we drive overseas. In England we had to laugh when we got warnings about a little bend coming up from a couple of miles away. Here it wouldn't have rated a sign on most of our country roads.

There is only SO much money to go around, SOMETHING in NZ is sucking it away from roading - find that "something", sort it out and THEN we may see more spent on the roads.

What is the tax structure like in the countries you mentioned? And what is their social welfare etc system like?
Maybe they don't have it as good in that department, I don't know myself the answer to those questions but worth a thought eh?

[spudchucka]

I will not tease the nice policeman. I will not tease the nice policeman. I will not tease the nice policeman. ....

Go right ahead if its what amuses your tiny mind. Just be willing to get it back when you do.

[James Deuce]

There is only SO much money to go around, SOMETHING in NZ is sucking it away from roading - find that "something", sort it out and THEN we may see more spent on the roads.

What is the tax structure like in the countries you mentioned? And what is their social welfare etc system like?
Maybe they don't have it as good in that department, I don't know myself the answer to those questions but worth a thought eh?

Sweden and Norway's social services make NZ's look terrible by comparison. But they both have access to much larger pools of wealth than we do. Norway comes 2nd in the GDP per capita lists behind the Luxembourg and ahead of the US.

[Alan Wilkinson]

As I said earlier, wealth comes from making sensible investments and working hard - and sometimes from a bit of luck like Norway's North Sea oil.

But we had Maui and pretty much frittered it away as quickly as possible.

We have had too many governments that don't have a clue - and voters that elect them. And they control too many things that they don't understand.

[Alan Wilkinson]

We should always strive for the safest possible traffic environment with a goal of keeping road deaths as low as possible. Efficiency and progress at the expense of human life isn't an option.

Actually, human life is quite often sacrificed for progress - in various ways. But my point is that eventually, and usually quite quickly, progress leads to greater safety not less. Striving for progress is a worthwhile activity. Accepting mediocrity is not.

[spudchucka]

As I said earlier, wealth comes from making sensible investments and working hard - and sometimes from a bit of luck like Norway's North Sea oil.

But we had Maui and pretty much frittered it away as quickly as possible.

We have had too many governments that don't have a clue - and voters that elect them. And they control too many things that they don't understand.

So we are a country of clueless voters lead by the clueless governments we elected? I suppose you would prefer to see the country dictated to by someone ............ like yourself, who understands all things in the wide wide world of sports.

[Alan Wilkinson]

So we are a country of clueless voters lead by the clueless governments we elected? I suppose you would prefer to see the country dictated to by someone ............ like yourself, who understands all things in the wide wide world of sports.

No, I'd prefer to see the government controlling less of our lives and our resources. Nations do better when individuals are freer so long as life, liberty and property are protected.

[spudchucka]

Actually, human life is quite often sacrificed for progress - in various ways. But my point is that eventually, and usually quite quickly, progress leads to greater safety not less. Striving for progress is a worthwhile activity. Accepting mediocrity is not.

Progress at the expense of human life? So long as it isn't your life or the life of someone close to you.

Your dreams of a national four lane divided highway are delusions of granduer. We will be travelling by teleporter before that road gets built.


Teleporter, hmmmmm, progress.....................