Fast and Safe

[bluninja]

Having followed this thread for a while I was struck in a senior moment by deja vu. Those who have been around a while may remember this as well.

BUACA!

Thought they had their own site and blocked NZ from accessing it when we continued the discussion on their website. They are now on http://groups.msn.com/BUACA/ in case anyone wants to debate with them some more.

Can you imagine Alan trying to do the same? Don't think so, though he does have editorial control of all on his site.

[spudchucka]

I don't have a table created from some survey of thousands, BUT, , , immediate acquantances don't even consider reporting minor crimes. Could be just people I know . . . .

It has always been a problem getting people to report minor crimes and this is what makes the crime stats misleading. Likewise with crimes such as rape and sexual violation, many victims simply won't report these crimes because they don't want to go through the degrading processes that are part of investigation and medical examination, some just don't want to relive the experience by telling their story. The true extent of all crime is pretty much unknowable.

[Alan Wilkinson]

I thought he wanted to privatise the roads. I have read his website and I must confess that the man can handle himslef in a debate. http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx...l/LTSAComments
and http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx/Pages/Media/Haden. Mind you it's not hard to cut this man down to size. Done it myself on one occasion.
His stats have survived peer review. Here is a man who is and can take on the 'estabishment' at their own game. He talks the same language as them but comes to a different conclusion. Is he right or wrong?. On this I am undecided. But I am leaning to the view that he may just have something. To me his biggest stumbling block is the privatising of highways. If this is his answer then he is going to need Govt legislation to do so. Now if the Govt. is willing to do this on private highways why not on public roads? After all the mindset is the same. Perhaps Allan you could elaborate futher on this point.

Skyryder

I think the biggest problem to solve with privatisation is to make sure you don't hand a private provider a monopoly. If there is one thing worse than a public monopoly it is a private monopoly. So to my mind there must always be a competitive alternative, or the realistic opportunity for a competitor to come in if you overprice - either public or private.

Apart from avoiding a monopoly there are probably a lot of ways to go. For example, the govt could own the major highway land corridors and lease out portions to private operators (eg toll lanes).

Yes, it will certainly need legislation. It has to be a government initiative.

I'm not sure if this answered your question because I'm not 100% sure what you were asking.

[spudchucka]

Quote:
Originally Posted by spudchucka
Kindly pointed out by Indo in post #33, Alan Wilkinson insults anybody that wants to go slower than him by calling them less educated & poorer than him, (from his web site).


This is typical BS that Alan has been getting from this thread. In relation to this was a link to the research by I think US academics which investigated the demographics of fast or slow drivers. They found that the more of a go-getter you were the faster you tended to drive. The less educated and lower socio-economic tended to drive slower. The old story I suppose - things to do, places to go, people to meet, and not enough time.

Annoyingly I can't find the link.

http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx...ia/OurComments

You'll note it came from the section entitled "Our Comments" This is his thought process at work.

My current thinking is that the major problem with speed limits is that they attempt to impose the same speed solution on all subgroups and this is suboptimal almost all the time.

People who want to go slower (typically females, van-drivers, less affluent, less educated, elderly) feel pressured to go faster and people who want to go faster (typically male, car drivers, more affluent, more educated) feel impatient and bored.

He lost what little respect I had for him and his ideas when I read this absolute load of maggot crap.

http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx...ourBaby12Dec04

Register Your Car Or We Take Your Baby We're from the Government and we're here to help.

Thuggery in Police Uniform

Words just about fail me on this story. A disgrace to my sex, three carloads of cops bullying a teenage mother. Just a gang of low-life thugs in my book, and that goes too for their spineless commander who ducks his responsibility behind "just following guidelines".

But of course the hidden story here is that vehicle registration fees are sky-rocketing beyond the ability of low-paid families to afford. Why? Because the ACC levy component is rising due to the increased road injuries caused by the catastrophic failure of rigid speed enforcement policies.

So the police are responsible for the whole sorry story here from start to finish. Uncaring total incompetence reigns.

He makes endless assumptions and passes them off as facts.

http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx...etQuotas/index

However, it is plain that the police budget and funding by the Government is based on meeting target objectives in the form of numbers of speeding tickets issued per year. There is simply no other possible consequence than that police managers send out their staff on patrol with the demand that they return with the requisite number of tickets per hour.

He admitted himself that this little beauty is unprovable and amounts to total speculation.

http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx...orcement/index

High visibility/rigid enforcement policies introduced in Dec 2000 resulted in 11,000 ADDITIONAL injuries and some 50 ADDITIONAL deaths in three years, and continues to cause 5000 unnecessary injuries every year.

Great idea Alan. I mean it really worked out well for the consumer privatising the power companies, water supply companies, etc etc etc.

We support competing private toll roads and toll lanes. These must be actively managed and controlled by private operators to ensure innovative best practices and services.

Alan can't see that in fact, he too is part of a prejudiced minority.

This book is dedicated to the countless thousands who have died on the roads of the world as the result of the prejudices of a minority

Alan replies to any comment he doesn't like with one of the following sentences.

Farcical pseudo-science.
Rubbish.
More rubbish.
Meaningless drivel.
Emotive claptrap.
No.
Hogwash.
More hogwash.
More hogwash statistics
Untrue.
We, the public, are sick of all this official deceit.
A cascade of assertions without evidence,
Don't you just love that arrogance -

And those are just the ones from his web site, theres more if you want to read back through this thread.

ABC of Tabloid Journalism 101

Passed with Distinction: Abuse and Bluster
Failed to Achieve: Content

This is how he summed up Frank Haden, a Sunday Star Times columnist. Yet elswhere he has celebrated the word of the Sunday Star Times journalists as being some sort of miraculous truth - when it suits him.

Like I've said earlier, based on what I've seen on his web site and what he has posted here, I have nothing but contempt for the man.

[Alan Wilkinson]

Kindly pointed out by Indo in post #33, Alan Wilkinson insults anybody that wants to go slower than him by calling them less educated & poorer than him, (from his web site).

This is a finding reported by Univ of Texas researchers, not me. They investigated desired speeds and broke down the results by many variables including also sex, age, vehicle type, population density where they lived.

[Alan Wilkinson]

Like I've said earlier, based on what I've seen on his web site and what he has posted here, I have nothing but contempt for the man.

That's good, because I would be concerned at any praise from a man like you.

[Alan Wilkinson]

However, it is plain that the police budget and funding by the Government is based on meeting target objectives in the form of numbers of speeding tickets issued per year. There is simply no other possible consequence than that police managers send out their staff on patrol with the demand that they return with the requisite number of tickets per hour.

He admitted himself that this little beauty is unprovable and amounts to total speculation.

Not quite, cutie. You've admitted yourself you don't report traffic infringement warnings in case your ticket/warning ratio looks bad. The pressure is obvious.

Also in today's Herald:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?...ectID=10010610

But the source said Strategic Traffic Unit staff were judged on the number of tickets - "contacts" - issued and officers were expected to make three contacts an hour.

If unit staff did not meet that quota, it could be looked on as "a performance issue".

As the unit was judged solely on the number of "contacts", attending police jobs that did not result in an infringement being issued were considered lost time.

Police spokesman Jon Neilson said three "contacts" an hour was a department guideline, but not a quota.

[Alan Wilkinson]

Great idea Alan. I mean it really worked out well for the consumer privatising the power companies, water supply companies, etc etc etc.

As I said, avoid creating private monopolies. But it sounds like you would have been really happy in communist Russia or Albania. You would have enjoyed the fantastic service and innovations from government enterprises.

Come to think of it, the police probably had dachas on the Black Sea coast.

[Paul in NZ]

As I said, avoid creating private monopolies. But it sounds like you would have been really happy in communist Russia or Albania. You would have enjoyed the fantastic service and innovations from government enterprises.

Come to think of it, the police probably had dachas on the Black Sea coast.

I think thats below the belt Alan... You have to accept people will have different politics / opinions to yours and that does not make them either wrong or communist dictators.

The investigations I have done here indicate that (from a commercial point of few) that any privatisation of roading in NZ would end up in the hands of one or 2 monopolies (price fixing in the free market - surely not) with only a few metropolitan areas being profitable.

Given the current state of politics in NZ, this move would be fairly un acceptable in the forseeable future. Indeed, the public don't seem that keen. (no I'm not giving you my data it is very commercially sensitive and I like my job thanks)

The private enterprise model is considered smoke and mirrors to Joe Average Voter here in NZ. You would need to do a lot of work to convince them otherwise and a website is not going to achieve that.

My own personal opinion is that I would not support you generally except:

I do agree SHW1 should be 4 lanes Northland to Dunedin.
I do agree that speed policing was far too enthusiastic.
I do see this backing off slightly.
I believe Police need better resources for handling emergency situations

Every country has a unique situation. In general we are well served by our Police in this country and get good value for money. I have been personally and professionally involved with a lot of Police and generally found them to be of a high standard and dedicated to their jobs.

Criminals are finding new ways to tax the Police resources constantly and they have had to pick up the pieces of a lot of the failed right wing social experiments from your side of the spectrum. I think they need better resources...

The actions of the Police are to some extent dictated by the government and public officials. These same officials, while they demand performance levels, are usually a bit skinny on delivering resource.

I see this same situation in NZ's roading.

On the other hand. I do not want to see a country where you can decide how fast you want to drive that day. (ie flat out) or where rich owners of large cars are allowed to do as they please. There is a tradition of ownership of old and classic vehicles here and I kind of like sharing the road with Morris Minors. It's part of our charm. Besides, if I'm in a hurry I catch a plane. It's cheaper and faster.

Paul N

[Alan Wilkinson]

I think thats below the belt Alan... You have to accept people will have different politics / opinions to yours and that does not make them either wrong or communist dictators.

Just pitching to Spud at his own level. But it's correct as well.

The investigations I have done here indicate that (from a commercial point of few) that any privatisation of roading in NZ would end up in the hands of one or 2 monopolies (price fixing in the free market - surely not) with only a few metropolitan areas being profitable.

Given the current state of politics in NZ, this move would be fairly un acceptable in the forseeable future. Indeed, the public don't seem that keen. (no I'm not giving you my data it is very commercially sensitive and I like my job thanks)

I think it depends how it's done. Even if there is competition between private and public provisions it would be an improvement. [E.g. private prisons - so successful the govt closed it down to protect its unions]
[QUOTE=Paul in NZ]
The private enterprise model is considered smoke and mirrors to Joe Average Voter here in NZ. You would need to do a lot of work to convince them otherwise and a website is not going to achieve that.
[\QUOTE]
I think average Joe in Auckland would have a different opinion.

My own personal opinion is that I would not support you generally except:

I do agree SHW1 should be 4 lanes Northland to Dunedin.
I do agree that speed policing was far too enthusiastic.
I do see this backing off slightly.
I believe Police need better resources for handling emergency situations

Every country has a unique situation. In general we are well served by our Police in this country and get good value for money. I have been personally and professionally involved with a lot of Police and generally found them to be of a high standard and dedicated to their jobs.

Criminals are finding new ways to tax the Police resources constantly and they have had to pick up the pieces of a lot of the failed right wing social experiments from your side of the spectrum. I think they need better resources...

The actions of the Police are to some extent dictated by the government and public officials. These same officials, while they demand performance levels, are usually a bit skinny on delivering resource.

I see this same situation in NZ's roading.

I agree with most of that. Where I would differ (and this is just personal opinion - nothing to do with FastAndSafe issues), is:

a) we have far too many laws and regulations designed to protect people from themselves and this has created far too many pseudo crimes and work for police.

b) classic example is cannabis laws. How many people have died from cannabis? How many people have died from cannabis prohibition? How much money has cannabis prohibition delivered to organised crime? How many people grow and support addictive habits on welfare?

c) police get landed with too many mental health problems.

On the other hand. I do not want to see a country where you can decide how fast you want to drive that day. (ie flat out) or where rich owners of large cars are allowed to do as they please. There is a tradition of ownership of old and classic vehicles here and I kind of like sharing the road with Morris Minors. It's part of our charm. Besides, if I'm in a hurry I catch a plane. It's cheaper and faster.

The charm wears off when you have a 250 km journey to do a job. Incidentally, I've nothing against slow drivers when they are considerate and allow other traffic to pass. Very often it is the second driver in a long queue who is incompetent, blocks others from overtaking but won't overtake themselves.

[Lou Girardin]

I bet he's pissed at you for inviting him in to the lions den.

Wasn't me.

[Alan Wilkinson]

Wasn't me.

Ha! Lion's den??? Poor old Spud has delusions of grandeur. More like a little kid's play pen for him and his mates.

[Lou Girardin]

Kindly pointed out by Indo in post #33, Alan Wilkinson insults anybody that wants to go slower than him by calling them less educated & poorer than him, (from his web site).

Is that actually an insult? Or are you deflecting attention from who actually started the abuse on THIS website.

[Lou Girardin]

It has always been a problem getting people to report minor crimes and this is what makes the crime stats misleading. Likewise with crimes such as rape and sexual violation, many victims simply won't report these crimes because they don't want to go through the degrading processes that are part of investigation and medical examination, some just don't want to relive the experience by telling their story. The true extent of all crime is pretty much unknowable.

And getting worse. As the public increasingly believe that the Police won't respond, they're less likely to bother reporting crime. Unless their insurance co requires it.

[Lou Girardin]

Ha! Lion's den??? Poor old Spud has delusions of grandeur. More like a little kid's play pen for him and his mates.

It's good to have company, I've been entertaining Spud, Scumdog, et al. for a while now. They've been missing me lately, since I've been busy with other things.