Fast and Safe

**marty** · 16th February 2005, 06:26

Originally Posted by Alan Wilkinson

But the trend was down before HP was introduced, in fact since 1985. The question is whether it changed direction perceptibly, and it hasn't. You can't tell from one year either - you have to look at the whole picture.

you'll have to post a link to that fact alan, cause i can't find it.

**Coldkiwi** · 16th February 2005, 11:35

Originally Posted by spudchucka

If people observed proper following distances then this wouldn't be a problem at all. Its just another reason why the bulk of drivers aren't "fast & safe".

Absolutely. It'd be nice to see some adverts about that again. bring back Brock!

Originally Posted by spudchucka

Speed cameras aren't meant to be hidden anymore.

Thats what i kept telling people in the weekend but no bugger beleived me! The 'anytime, anywhere' hidden camera campaign has been properly put to rest right?

So if hiding mobile vans behind bushes should be not allowed anymore, I would gladly write a very irate letter to LTNZ, PCA etc. noting the buggers who were contravening this because with the normal following distances on the motorway it was kinda scary to watch!

**bear** · 16th February 2005, 14:32

So why does Alan not have a bad rep with so many people bagging him?

Nice work Spudchucka!

Had some points to post of this thread, but after reading most of it I just feel drained.

Can't get past Alan's theory on letting everyone go as fast as they deem is safe, and using the courts to establish if this was the case afterwards where that person's judgement is challenged for going too fast/slow. If this happens then won't the cases ruled on in court provide guidelines for safe speeds, and then there will be rules in effect anyway!?! (case law)

**scumdog** · 16th February 2005, 16:36

Originally Posted by bear

So why does Alan not have a bad rep with so many people bagging him?

Nice work Spudchucka!

Had some points to post of this thread, but after reading most of it I just feel drained.

Can't get past Alan's theory on letting everyone go as fast as they deem is safe, and using the courts to establish if this was the case afterwards where that person's judgement is challenged for going too fast/slow. If this happens then won't the cases ruled on in court provide guidelines for safe speeds, and then there will be rules in effect anyway!?! (case law)

I hope you are as happy with Alans theory when you have just been cleaned up by some dick who was going as fast "as he deemed safe" and decides to take it to court to 'prove' he WAS driving at a safe speed.

And if that speed was quite low when he crashed into you? Then the Court might decide that even 70kph was too fast and make the open road limit 65kph.

**avgas** · 16th February 2005, 19:48

Why does Alan not have a bike?
Sorry i prob. missd a point here somewhere.
If i didnt have a bike, i would talk about bikes - not about leagalities, laws or the general public.
Unless he doesnt ride....

**spudchucka** · 16th February 2005, 20:16

Originally Posted by bear

So why does Alan not have a bad rep with so many people bagging him?

Nice work Spudchucka!

Well I'm not sure what you mean exactly but I've only ever dished out bad rep to total retards like WINJA. Alan is not quite on the same planet as I am but he clearly isn't in that category yet. And he hasn't resorted to calling police officers pigs or insulting other KB members mothers yet.

**spudchucka** · 16th February 2005, 20:31

Originally Posted by Coldkiwi

Absolutely. It'd be nice to see some adverts about that again. bring back Brock!

Thats what i kept telling people in the weekend but no bugger beleived me! The 'anytime, anywhere' hidden camera campaign has been properly put to rest right?

So if hiding mobile vans behind bushes should be not allowed anymore, I would gladly write a very irate letter to LTNZ, PCA etc. noting the buggers who were contravening this because with the normal following distances on the motorway it was kinda scary to watch!

Maybe the cameras should be video cameras and send out tickets to anyone not observing the 2 second rule?

It don't know much at all about cameras, its not an area of my job that I'm even slightly interested in. I'm pretty sure however that the sites the vans operate in are pre-determined or pre-approved and are GPS logged. They all have a unique identifying number that relates to the GPS plot. If you have concerns about how the vans are being deployed then you should consider writing and asking for an explanation. If nothing else results you may at least acquire knowledge of their operational standards that may be of interest to you.

**spudchucka** · 16th February 2005, 20:45

Originally Posted by marty

you'll have to post a link to that fact alan, cause i can't find it.

Last year LTSA had fatal & injury crash stats dating back to the 60's on their web site. They don't have it up anymore unfortunately. If you e-mailed them I'm sure it would still be available.

Alan is just playing on the fact that the HP were introduced in 2000 and in 2003 the road toll spiked from 404 to 461. Going totally off the top of my head I can recall a number of multiple fatality crashes that year, which contributed to the high toll.

In 2000 when the HP were introduced the road toll was 462, 2001 was 453 followed by the all time low of 404 in 2002. Last year, 2004 the toll was 435, once again on the downward track despite the high toll in 2003.

I sure as hell hope kiwis wise up for the remainder of 2005 because we are already sitting on 49 and we aren't even through the second month yet.

**spudchucka** · 16th February 2005, 20:51

Originally Posted by hobdar

BUT what it does say in the conclusion is that SPEED IS A FACTOR...........please correct me if i misinterrput the data...

Anyone with a head wired up correctly can see this is the truth. Regardless of how much anyone enjoys a good burst of speed in circumstances they deem to be safe, shit still happens and when it happens at high speed it makes a bloody big mess.

**spudchucka** · 16th February 2005, 20:54

Originally Posted by speedpro

Quote:
"these messages" may have been around a long time but you see them a whole lot less than the "speed kills" messages. Most of the "hated advertising" I see anywhere is all about speed. In fact I don't recall seeing any "hated advertising" for anything else except speeding.

I'll take your word for it. I don't watch enough TV to see the ads on a regular basis and quite frankly when an ad comes on I either mute or change channels.

**Blakamin** · 16th February 2005, 20:58

Originally Posted by spudchucka

Regardless of how much anyone enjoys a good burst of speed in circumstances they deem to be safe, shit still happens and when it happens at high speed it makes a bloody big mess.

yup... look at the fact germany has about 2000 deaths a year on the autobahn
but less actual crashes than most countries (source: Autobahn, discovery channel)...
you dont get injured when you or your car fucks up at 200kph, you die!
all this on a road without a pot-hole....
we're screwed!

**spudchucka** · 16th February 2005, 21:00

Originally Posted by Biff Baff

It's also worth noting that the number of traffic police on UK roads is very, very low compared to NZ (per head of population).

I know what you're all thinking - wooohoooo, fewer nasty people to catch us. But there is a more sinister downside to this trend, and that is that the number of fuckwits in cages going un-checked is increasing at an alarming rate. From jumping red lights, to driving while drunk, unlicensed drivers, unfit vehicles and so on are increasing at an alarming rate.

I know that this may sound perverted, but I'd much rather see a traffic cop on the road capable of doing several duties associated with traffic/crime related issues than a freaking Polaroid camera on a stick.

I'm not sure about actual traffic cops per population but England and Wales have more police than NZ per population. 1 cop to 406 people in England & Wales. 1 cop to 543 people in NZ.

http://www.nzpa.org.nz/

Go to the media releases section.

You will note that NZ has the lowest cop to population ratio of any of the developed nations on that graph.

**spudchucka** · 16th February 2005, 21:02

Originally Posted by Blakamin

yup... look at the fact germany has about 2000 deaths a year on the autobahn
but less actual crashes than most countries (source: Autobahn, discovery channel)...
you dont get injured when you or your car fucks up at 200kph, you die!
all this on a road without a pot-hole....
we're screwed!

And the majority of vehicles would be Mercs, Volvos etc etc. Not POS jap import rice rockets and rusted out Fords & Holdens.

**Skyryder** · 16th February 2005, 21:04

Originally Posted by spudchucka

I'm not sure about actual traffic cops per population but England and Wales have more police than NZ per population. 1 cop to 406 people in England & Wales. 1 cop to 543 people in NZ.

http://www.nzpa.org.nz/

Go to the media releases section.

You will note that NZ has the lowest cop to population ratio of any of the developed nations on that graph.

And I see in the Chch Press that our esteemed Minister of Police is 'happy' with the current Police numbers.

Skyryder