Hazards of gaggle of cyclists

[nodrog:Me]

Cycles spill nothing on the road.

i beg to differ ...

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/...ruck-blood.jpg

[Mikkel]

And how many times has this happened to you recently?

At least one time too many. Fortunately no cars were coming the other way...

The logic in that is stupefying.

Yes, I can tell you're stupefied after reading it, hopefully you'll get over it.

[Trouser]

Cycles don't require HP cars to issue speeding and careless driving tickets.
That's why cycles don't pay road tax.

By your logic we should pay tax walk across the road.

Some cyclists do need a HP car to issue careless use charges, drink driving charges and fines for exceeding the speed limit.

A cycle is still a vehicle and the person riding it can be charged.

[Ixion]

Cycles do no damage to the road.
Cycles spill nothing on the road.
Cycles don't cause pollution.
Cycles don't run over and kill people.
Cycles don't require HP cars to issue speeding and careless driving tickets.
That's why cycles don't pay road tax.

By your logic we should pay tax walk across the road.

I know of at least one case where a pedestrian was knocked down and killed by a bicycle. And the cyclist was done for dangerous driving causing death.

[Swoop]

Cycles spill nothing on the road.
Cycles don't cause pollution.
Cycles don't run over and kill people.
Cycles don't require HP cars to issue speeding and careless driving tickets.
That's why cycles don't pay road tax.

By your logic we should pay tax walk across the road.

We could compare motorcycles and bicycles.

There are types that can be used on the road.
There are types that are used off-road.

So, as we know, the types of motorbikes used offroad (racebikes, MX,etc, etc) do not pay road-use fees (rego, etc).

Why not get bicycles onto this setup as well?
Road bikes = road taxes.
Trail bikes = no taxes.

[pzkpfw]

What I hate is when the gaggle acts like one vehicle, not a collection of many, each needing to follow the relevant laws.

I had this coming down the gorge (Wellington), to turn left going to Petone. That puts you in a left lane, of two, that then merge into one and then merges onto the actual motorway.

The right lane is from Wellington, and this long bunch of riders was coming from there.

Understandably, they wanted to get from the right lane to the left lane - but the buggers did it as one big long unbreakable snake of bikes.

I come up in the left lane and had two choices: stop or merge. It's not a give-way or stop - so I chose "merge" (though it was they who were coming into my lane).

I did it nice and slow, carefully and quietly. (Read this line twice).

But none of the buggers would open a gap to let me out into the right lane so I could safely pass them. They boxed me in, like it was my fault for being there.

Eventually I was able to carefully sidle to the right of the left lane, and was then able to pass them - luckily before the two lanes become one.

I couldn't understand why they couldn't just help me safely be on my way.

If I was in a big freakin' logging truck they'd have made a gap.

Cheers,

[Clockwork]

I do wonder if this "pile-up" had as much to do with the distances between riders as the behaviour of the ute driver. For all other road users... if you pile into the back of the vehicle in front, you're in the wrong!

[AlBundy]

(while they were cycling along the road in a safe manner and obeying all applicable road rules)

Accidents happen in a lot of cases because people fucked up. They were too close to the cyclist who had to swerve to avoid someone pulling out of a driveway and the passing car clipped them....the cyclist is forced to leave the road to avoid a head-on because the impatient driver of a truck decides to overtake another truck without regard for the fact that the cyclist now has a large approaching vehicle in the left hand lane closing fast...the cyclist has a door opened on them on a busy road - they have nowhere to swerve except into a line of following traffic....3 of many more incidents that happened to me in Nelson last year.
.

You were in Nelson...

So, do you consider two cyclists abreast going up the Whangamoas as being in a 'SAFE' manner? Or down the main highway between Nelson to Mot?

I think NOT!

No other road user is allowed to ride abreast, why do cyclists think they have the right to?

BTW, I've done a lot of cycling. I used to race as a youngster, so I'm not anti-cycling at all. Cyclists need an attitude adjustment. They don't own the road. Anything other than single-file, is not acceptable.

Oh, also... You comment on motorcyclist spacial awareness and being prepared, yet you claim to have so many incidents while cycling. Why weren't you planning ahead, so you didn't have to swerve and react to any of those situations? Or were you happily sitting in a big group, secure in the caccoon, knowing you are untouchable? It's a two-way street. Curteousy goes both ways and cyclists show and serious lack of curteousy IMO...

[scracha]

Most of you guys talk like all cyclists are arseholes. Yep, there are some total arseholes on bicycles. There are arseholes in cars and there are arseholes on motorcycles. You can't tar one particular group of road users with the same brush. Imagine if they did that to us motorcyclists?

[bell]

You were in Nelson...

So, do you consider two cyclists abreast going up the Whangamoas as being in a 'SAFE' manner? Or down the main highway between Nelson to Mot?

I think NOT!
Whether they are permitted to do so under our current laws is perhaps a moot point. FWIW I don't ride two abreast when I am riding with a mate or my wife as I don't have any need to. Nor did I want the extra hassle of the Nelson portion of NZ's dimwitted driving population trying to squeeze past us further endangering our lives.

And so what if you or I did happen to approach a cyclist (or two riding abreast) going up the Whangamoas or between Motueka and Nelson? If anyone is worthy of having their name on the plastic card with Driver Licence on it, they will give the bikes a decent amount of room and show some respect.

Patience is so fucking underrated.

No other road user is allowed to ride abreast, why do cyclists think they have the right to?

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/abo...-cyclists.html (fifth point down)

BTW, I've done a lot of cycling. I used to race as a youngster, so I'm not anti-cycling at all. Cyclists need an attitude adjustment. They don't own the road. Anything other than single-file, is not acceptable.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/about-other-road-users/information-for-cyclists.html (and again...)

Oh, also... You comment on motorcyclist spacial awareness and being prepared, yet you claim to have so many incidents while cycling.

Not claiming this mate, it's the truth. I wouldn't make shit up to justify my point.

Why weren't you planning ahead, so you didn't have to swerve and react to any of those situations?

Planning ahead has been my saviour for many years on the road. You cover your brakes when you assess that someone is likely to pull out on you/open a door on you (which you've tried to identify by looking over the tops of drivers' headrests or because you've seen a car pull into a parking space ahead of you), you check behind you before changing position on the road, and so on and so forth.

The years I spent riding bicycles in heavy traffic and also on open roads have served me well in the transition to a motorcycle. There are many transferable skills.

Read my post again. No, don't bother I'll reproduce it here to save any problems with comprehension.
1.They were too close to the cyclist who had to swerve to avoid someone pulling out of a driveway and the passing car clipped them
If you're on the bicycle and you have 0.5 seconds to react to the car that has just stuck its nose out from between a line of parked cars across the shoulder of road that you are riding on it doesn't leave a huge amount of time to do a shoulder check and decide if you've got the option of either going over the bonnet of the car tha pulled ou, or whether you;ll do a quick swerve.

My issue on this occasion was with the idiot that pulled across my path, rather than the car that was following me that clipped me. IF, however, the following car had seen the bicycle ahead of them and decided to move over another 50cms toward the centreline I would not have made contact with their vehicle. And yes, the car did have sufficient room because I was able to see where their wheels were positioned in relation to the white line when they hit me.

2. the cyclist is forced to leave the road to avoid a head-on because the impatient driver of a truck decides to overtake another truck without regard for the fact that the cyclist now has a large approaching vehicle in the left hand lane closing fast

Aside from telepathy, I am not aware of how I can control the actions of a large truck (or its driver) that is approxiamtely 150 metres ahead of me, in clear daytime conditions without any other traffic behind me (for my bike to have blended in with).

3. the cyclist has a door opened on them on a busy road - they have nowhere to swerve except into a line of following traffic

I was planning ahead dude. Always do. It's just that sometimes you don't have sufficient time or space to react.

Or were you happily sitting in a big group, secure in the caccoon, knowing you are untouchable?
As outlined above:
No.
No.
And no.

Pfffftt. "Untouchable" is so fucking far off the mark that you would have trouble understanding.

There is no fucking "COCCOON" when you're on a bicycle. Your head and the smarts that you take with you on the road are it. The rest is unfortunately a large degree of chance and the smarts or lack thereof, that every other road user brings to the equation.

It's a two-way street. Curteousy goes both ways and cyclists show and serious lack of curteousy IMO...

I'm glad that you noted it was only your opinion. For a sec there I thought you were generalising about all cyclists.

wordcount...

[bell]

Most of you guys talk like all cyclists are arseholes. Yep, there are some total arseholes on bicycles. There are arseholes in cars and there are arseholes on motorcycles. You can't tar one particular group of road users with the same brush. Imagine if they did that to us motorcyclists?

Ditto......

[AlBundy]

I'm sorry Bell.

SOME of those are just not paying attention.

When I cycle down the road and there are a lot of parked cars, I'm always looking for someone possibly coming out a drive...
I also compulsively check to see if anyone is in the driver seat, possibly going to get out. I also look behind me to see if anything is coming, so I know whether I'll have safe-routes.

As for swerving, the driver has already taken you into account, based on where you were at the time. The fact you got caught and had to swerve is as much of a surprise to him as it is to you. You can't apply the logic that he had to give more room.

Granted, some people spend more time on the road than me as a cyclist. That said, I'm paranoid when I'm out on the open road. That's riding single file. I don't even consider riding two abreast... That's the difference as I see it. I'm vulnerable.

As for the road code... Just because it says you can, doesn't make it safe.... And it was more a rhetorical question anyway... Why should cyclists have the right to ride abreast. Maybe years ago with less traffic it was safer but nowadays with more cars on the road, it's definately not...

We'll debate this 'til the cows come home and everyone has their opinions. I'm set in mine, you in yours....

I'll side on the side of Murphy and physics...... Shit happens and bikes/cars/trucks are bigger and harder than me... By all means, go and tempt fate by riding two abreast. Just don't bitch about it when you get hit...

[AlBundy]

Most of you guys talk like all cyclists are arseholes. Yep, there are some total arseholes on bicycles. There are arseholes in cars and there are arseholes on motorcycles. You can't tar one particular group of road users with the same brush. Imagine if they did that to us motorcyclists?

I don't dispute that...

[hayd3n]

Cycles do no damage to the road.
wel they make fukin cycle lanes that require paint repairs etc


Cycles spill nothing on the road.

like fuk they dont
they throw out drink bottles chocolate bars

Cycles don't cause pollution.

how are the bike made without pollution???
how are the tyres made ??
where does the used rubber go?
where does the chain oil go??
it all wears off and pollutes!!!!

Cycles don't run over and kill people.
yes they do and they knock over old grannys/granpas


Cycles don't require HP cars to issue speeding and careless driving tickets.
That's why cycles don't pay road tax.

so i cant get a speeding ticket on a bike bullshit it is possible!
a m8 of mine got one on a skateboard!!!!!!!!
and ppl get them when drinking and riding a bike !!!
you are still on the road so you have to abide by the rules !!!!!!!!!

bike should pay some kind of one of levy added to the original cost as some traffic lights also accommodate cycle crossings
they have cycle lanes (some of which are also footpaths) and bicycle parks who the fuck pays for all of these???
yes we all do!!!!!!!!!!!
every single one of us tax earners!!!!!!!!!

[Dave Lobster]

Ohh, Dave. You don't get it do you? It's your responsibility to look at what's going on ahead of your vehicle and plan whether you're going to squeeze past the bike leaving 44cms between your vehicle and their handlebars OR reduce speed and move over in your lane to give the cyclist a decent amount of space.

There are courteous drivers that choose to move over in their lane to pass a cyclist, and they'll do it when there is nothing approaching from the other direction AND when there is oncoming traffic too (could be something to do with a good driver having an improved spatial awareness of their own vehicles' dimensions perhaps?). And there are poor drivers that choose not to move over in their lane to give the cyclist more than 40cms of passing space when there is NOTHING coming the other way toward their vehicle.

Scenario.. Manukau Road, Epsom, heading out of the city. Travelling along the inside lane (as I wasn't overtaking anything). Sitting in the right hand side of the lane, as there's a cyclist ahead. Be aware, I'm not going fast. 50ks, as that's the limit, and there's a lot of dorks about.
Up ahead, there's a parked car. I have plenty of space to pass it, without changing my position. Pushbike decides to pull into my path. No looking, no indicating. Nothing.
Now, when I grew up, all children had to do a cycling test. I did mine at the age of eight. If children can be taught to look behind them and indicate before pulling out in to the path of a vehicle, why can't an adult cope? Surely an adult should have enough brain capacity to cope with it.
As it was, he pulled out far earlier than he needed to, and my clairvoyant powers shouldn't have been needed.