MNZ request Super Motard feedback

[Kickaha]

ROAD RACE COMMISSIONER REQUIRES YOUR FEEDBACK

30 May 2008

A few years ago, after receiving a partition from 72 riders requesting that the Super Motard be excluded from F 3 class racing on the grounds of safety and that the different riding styles were incompatible MNZ put in place a rule that excluded Super Motards from competing in the same race as the F3 class bikes.

In the last little while MNZ has received a number of similar requests from riders in other classes to have Super Motards excluded from all classes of racing, other than their own class.

We would be pleased to receive a broader range of comments from riders before considering the same rule as F3 apply to all classes.

Please forward your comments to MNZ via vicky@mnz.co.nz or fax 07 8287 928; no later than the 30th June 2008.


Paul Stewart
MNZ Road Race Commissioner

[Kevin G]

ROAD RACE COMMISSIONER REQUIRES YOUR FEEDBACK

30 May 2008

A few years ago, after receiving a partition from 72 riders requesting that the Super Motard be excluded from F 3 class racing on the grounds of safety and that the different riding styles were incompatible MNZ put in place a rule that excluded Super Motards from competing in the same race as the F3 class bikes.

In the last little while MNZ has received a number of similar requests from riders in other classes to have Super Motards excluded from all classes of racing, other than their own class.

We would be pleased to receive a broader range of comments from riders before considering the same rule as F3 apply to all classes.

Please forward your comments to MNZ via vicky@mnz.co.nz or fax 07 8287 928; no later than the 30th June 2008.


Paul Stewart
MNZ Road Race Commissioner

Only a few days left to have your say.
Heres my view:

I think that removing motards from the formula classes is a step in the wrong direction. The sport is not really big enough to push away a very large and growing sector of road racing. Creating another class makes less track time for all competitors at race days and you could see a breakaway from MNZ.

How about considering something such as:

Motard bikes can compete in all classes of road racing as long as feet are kept on the bikes footpegs (killing the style that makes them dangerous)
It’s not the bikes it’s the riding styles people are using to ride them. Ex dirt riders rushing the apex in a remote or disillusioned belief they are going to find a berm or something to then accelerate out of, this is where the problems come from.

Create an all in (bike size) Motard class for those that wish to ride in the foot down style. This leaves things manageable from an event organisers point of view and keeps the numbers up in the classes.

I make these comments based on several South Island Motard bike riders that we have seen of late including the likes of Peter Byers (ex international rider) from here in Dunedin who was racing a 550 twin motard bike but riding it like a conventional road racer to great effect.

Let’s face it the concept has been around for years of road racing a off road style motorbike and YZ 490’s were used to great effect in F3 back in the late eighties and early nineties and the riders rode them like road bikes and it was safe and fun.

I am also of the view that having bikes that take different lines or riders that have different styles shouldn't be pushed away, hell if there was only one way around the track racing would be boring! In fact assuming they are ridden as discussed it forces the rider wanting past to have to think and create a plan in order to pass them, this is learning race craft!

I race a 125 GP bike and in the off season we run with F3, they (F3 riders) moan their tits off as we carve them up in the corners and are overly aggressive buts that’s the only way we can pass them as they blast us down the straights. Next they will have 125’s pushed out as well due to the fact they are different to them!

Kevin Goddard

[scott411]

before you get into the leg out crap argument again it
(my legs hangs no further out than a knee would if rode that way, it is no more dangerous than draging a knee)

i think you need ot look carefully at this, especailly the bears class as if you take all the KTM and Aprilla motards out, the numbners will be very light at some meetings,

you mention the 125 thing, and that people should get used to riding aggresive in the corners, i feel the same with motard bike,

as you have the same problems as motard, you lack straight line speed and have heaps of corner speed due to light weight, you make your bikes work in the best way,

Kevin you are on the right track, motard is one of the easiest ways to get dirt bikes riders (the thousands that there are) into road racing. and dirt bikes on street is not a new thing, imagine if Aaron Slight had turned up at manfield with a dirtbike, and been turned away because someone got upset he put his leg out,

[Kevin G]

Hi.
Its not the foot out itself, hell I don't care how much of the person is hanging off or what they hang off, it is the style of riding that comes with it. The different style of rushing the apex scares most road racers cause its "not normal". The type of bike we are discussing will stop in a shorter distance than most road bikes due to weight and the corner speed will be higher so you should be more than competitive adopting a more conventional road race style.

The major reason for my post was to get people thinking, Make sure you get your opinion heard by MNZ.

Thanks for sharing your view.

Kevin Goddard

[GaZBur]

I agree with Kevin being a Motard (OK Not an uber quick one)rider myself. At Race circuits nobody puts thier foot out but rides roadrace style. In the first race of the Burt Munroe at Teretonga a few tried for a lap or two but stopped that when everone else whipped past them on the outside. We could have run with any other class without any worries of wildly different lines causing problems. Street racing on the other hand at Wyndom the next day saw feet out and backing into corners due to the combination of right angle corners, short straights and a dodgy surface. I think that type of circuit would perhaps be the exception to the rule as mixing motards and other bikes on that particular street circuit may have been a problem??

So can I get back into F3 now please - I promise to be good!!!

EDIT::: I have emailed a version of my above post to MNZ via vicky@mnz.co.nz or fax 07 8287 928; as asked by Kickaha asking for them to consider rescinding the F3 exclusion for Motards as my opinion on this has now changed an I think we would be a benifit to the class and get some good fun racing ourselves.

I also added to the end of my email - Could you please consider rescinding the F3 exclusion of Motards for Race type circuits and perhaps leave it at Stewards discression for Street type circuits.

[cowpoos]

Hi.
Its not the foot out itself, hell I don't care how much of the person is hanging off or what they hang off, it is the style of riding that comes with it. The different style of rushing the apex scares most road racers cause its "not normal".

Nah...its the backing it in...wobbling around..of the motard guys that can't ride for shit but insist on doing it coz the fast motard guys do it,that piss's guys on road race bikes off...the biggest gripe I have with motards in the speed differential on straights...and alot of the time mid corner the motards dam near stop [it is in the style of point and squirt riding on a motard I know]...but on a SS of SP bike...or other classes...you commit to a line on turn in...with litttle room to move...then...a motard comes flying up your inside and parks in the middle of a corner...would be fine if like a 125.250GP bike rides around the outside of ya...but its not the way with motards alot of the time. But the speed differential is dangerous...no question at tracks like Manfield..and potentially taupos longer versions [incoorperating the big straight aways.

[GaZBur]

What gives - are there only three motard riders on Kiwibiker?
Why is nobody participating here???
Has anybody else mailed MNZ as Paul Stewart asked?
Get off yer ass guys or we will just have to accept whatever rules are made for us!

[DEATH_INC.]

I don't know wot the problem is.....I love getting amongst the motards and mixing it up at trackdays, and fuck it, ya blow past 'em down the straights no worries, even on a f3 bike...people just need to get over themselves and learn to ride with them....

[Kevin G]

Great, make sure you tell MNZyour view.

Kevin Goddard

[FROSTY:Me]

Nah...its the backing it in...wobbling around..of the motard guys that can't ride for shit but insist on doing it coz the fast motard guys do it,that piss's guys on road race bikes off...the biggest gripe I have with motards in the speed differential on straights...and alot of the time mid corner the motards dam near stop [it is in the style of point and squirt riding on a motard I know]...but on a SS of SP bike...or other classes...you commit to a line on turn in...with litttle room to move...then...a motard comes flying up your inside and parks in the middle of a corner...would be fine if like a 125.250GP bike rides around the outside of ya...but its not the way with motards alot of the time. But the speed differential is dangerous...no question at tracks like Manfield..and potentially taupos longer versions [incoorperating the big straight aways.

What he says
Its the --yea Ill take the inside line then stop dead right in front of ya moves that give me the shits -by the shits--its fucken stupid dangerous
Does somebody actually have to die before you guys figure it out?

[Kevin G]

As you seem to know that they are going to do it then then make a plan and pass them while they are "stopped" If the style they use proves not to work in a racing environment they will conform to dare I call it "normality"

My logic says they do this at the moment cause it works and that is now they make a pass, allow for it and counter it.

I agree that if riding is dangerous then it needs to be dealt with, this is the stewards job. Raise with an official and it should be dealt with. There is no room for dangerous riding in this sport, you are right on this one.

[cowpoos]

As you seem to know that they are going to do it then then make a plan and pass them while they are "stopped" .

nah..on the bigger bikes you carry a hell of alot more speed before braking...whip past them like they are standing still...motards have a amzing late braking abilities...due to low top speeds and lightweight bikes...they often nick under you at the last min and stop...to late to incorperate a plan!! I can't comment on F3/protwins etc...bit in the bigger classes...motards definatly should be else where...and I'm not trying to be a arse about this either guys...I'm a dirt rider and saeriously consiudering a motard as my next track bike...I'm just being upfront and honest about the issuse..would be a similar issuse if you stuck sidecars with bikes aswell...riding style too different..dangertous to a point...and annoyiong to a very high degree!!

[FROSTY:Me]

As you seem to know that they are going to do it then then make a plan and pass them while they are "stopped" If the style they use proves not to work in a racing environment they will conform to dare I call it "normality"

My logic says they do this at the moment cause it works and that is now they make a pass, allow for it and counter it.

I agree that if riding is dangerous then it needs to be dealt with, this is the stewards job. Raise with an official and it should be dealt with. There is no room for dangerous riding in this sport, you are right on this one.

Dude its not like that .
Rule 6.10 is pretty clear and unambiguous.
Rule 6.10 is there for a very good reason -rider safety.
The manouver we are talking about clearly breaks rule 6.10

[roadracingoldfart]

Motards belong in the class full of Motards and the road based bikes belong in the class full of road based bikes.

Wow is it really that hard to work out.

Paul.

[Sketchy_Racer]

as you have the same problems as motard, you lack straight line speed and have heaps of corner speed due to light weight, you make your bikes work in the best way,

Sorry but that's not true. Motards don't corner faster, the just get to the Apex faster, stop in the middle and get in the way.

Now all im waiting for is Idleidolidyll to come here harping on about how it's all about the formula class riders just getting upset about a chook chaser carving them up...

Same shit different day really. This topic has been debated to death.
They have a class, they can stay in it.