ESE's works engine tuner

**JanBros** · 22nd May 2018, 08:52

Originally Posted by peewee

nice project there. is it for drag racing and where is the gear box ? some how i would like to make a twin with two ktm 250cc cylinders

no gearbox, it's a scooter engine so a variomatic.

**Muhr** · 22nd May 2018, 09:05

Originally Posted by peewee

i dont have experience with titanium conrods but i thought they had to much elasticity for high piston speeds ?

Yes, in this case it seems to be 0.07mm for steel and 0.11mm for titanium at 9kn. should be possible to compensate for?

**wobbly** · 22nd May 2018, 09:19

Re the water flow scenarios.
The best setup is to have cold water into the cylinder at the boost port, that then flows over the transfers,around the exhaust duct area,then that warmed water enters
into and across the head.
Exiting again on the rear, the same side as the inlet.
This was a test I did on a TM Kart engine, by reversing the flow with a new inlet spigot on the rear of the cylinder , was worth over 1 Hp in 48.
In the original setup all the water entered under the Exhaust duct - but this lost power.
The next design used a hose around the side with the flow entering over the top of the Exhaust duct.

The test result again pointing to my assertion that designers are remiss in not having water flow over the whole transfer duct outer within the cylinder.
Jan gained power with a water channel on the transfer duct inside radius as well.

Last I heard several years ago about Ti rods was that a NASA patent had been taken up by Kurt at HotRods to use a deposition process that in effect created
a deep enough " case hardening " layer to enable needle rollers to run directly on the Titanium conrod big and small end bores.
He told me the manufacturing was a complete nightmare and doubted it was worth the effort.

**Muhr** · 22nd May 2018, 09:39

Originally Posted by wobbly

Last I heard several years ago about Ti rods was that a NASA patent had been taken up by Kurt at HotRods to use a deposition process that in effect created
a deep enough " case hardening " layer to enable needle rollers to run directly on the Titanium conrod big and small end bores.
He told me the manufacturing was a complete nightmare and doubted it was worth the effort.

Thank you wob
Wonder if it's a type of plasma nitriding

**190mech** · 22nd May 2018, 10:29

Muhr,I think the Ti rod has been tested many times,all had some drawbacks to the good old forged steel ones..
I saw this youtube vid on my favorite scooter forum that had your logo on some of the parts,is this some of your handy work?If so VERY GOOD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8MMB_dCxOU

**philou** · 22nd May 2018, 17:59

I think the rod is not titanium but titanium nitride coated

**wobbly** · 22nd May 2018, 19:02

That is the big issue with Ti rods, any form of so called Nitriding, is no good for use with direct roller contact - no different than the equivalent surface
of a steel rod.
The ground contact surface must be at least 0,5mm deep 58 Rc in both materials, and this is a case hardening operation,a quite different process to simple gas Nitriding
that is only microns deep.
NASA developed the process to do this with Ti for the space program, and they have a technology transfer system in place for USA tech companies.
But as far as I know the HotRods guys gave up on the project - I will contact Kurt the boss and ask.

**Muhr** · 22nd May 2018, 19:51

Originally Posted by 190mech

Muhr,I think the Ti rod has been tested many times,all had some drawbacks to the good old forged steel ones..
I saw this youtube vid on my favorite scooter forum that had your logo on some of the parts,is this some of your handy work?If so VERY GOOD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8MMB_dCxOU

It's a good friend of mine who produces some stuff, which I help with a few different things.

Originally Posted by wobbly

I will contact Kurt the boss and ask.

Yes, it would be interesting to hear more about that! One idea I had was to manufacture inconel inserts

**husaberg** · 22nd May 2018, 21:05

Originally Posted by Muhr

Does anyone have any experience with titanium conrods?

No experience but

AN Aussie was making and selling them in his classic racer with a Roller bearing crank
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130416026

they had case hardened replaceable sleeves.
Plenty of production $T bikes have had them RC30 OW01 etc etc

MMC was meant to be the way ahead

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130415632

Some other stuff
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130415630

**Frits Overmars** · 22nd May 2018, 21:32

Originally Posted by Muhr

Does anyone have any experience with titanium conrods?

Originally Posted by wobbly

Last I heard several years ago about Ti rods was that a NASA patent had been taken up by Kurt at HotRods to use a deposition process that in effect created a deep enough " case hardening " layer to enable needle rollers to run directly on the Titanium conrod big and small end bores. He told me the manufacturing was a complete nightmare and doubted it was worth the effort.

Re hardening the bearing surface in a Ti rod big end: it's not only the hardness that is important.
It's like walking on ice: no matter how hard the surface is, it also needs to be thick enough, or it will simply crack. Ti rods that do survive, have a steel big end insert.
A friend of mine, Rico Ronge, developed a nice method of welding steel to titanium. Muhr, in case you're in the Chemnitz area, he lives just around the corner.

Click image for larger version.

Name: Luyten-tita.jpg
Views: 160
Size: 99.7 KB
ID: 336859

Click image for larger version.

Name: Titanpleuel + Stahlbüchse by Rico Ronge.jpg
Views: 169
Size: 11.9 KB
ID: 336858

**wax** · 22nd May 2018, 22:47

Has anyone here ever moved the anti rotation pin in a piston. I am having issues getting the right pistons and its looking like i will have to have them moved. Any body done it before ??

**Muhr** · 23rd May 2018, 01:02

Originally Posted by Frits Overmars

A friend of mine, Rico Ronge, developed a nice method of welding steel to titanium. Muhr, in case you're in the Chemnitz area, he lives just around the corner.

interesting, it's something beautiful with a 45g conrod,

regardless of whether it's better or not. is it something he's working with or more a hobby

http://laser.mace.manchester.ac.uk/u...dissimilar.pdf

**Frits Overmars** · 23rd May 2018, 01:58

Originally Posted by Muhr

is it something he's working with or more a hobby?

Both.

https://www.ronge-motorsport.de/

**shnaggs** · 23rd May 2018, 02:08

This may be a really stupid question, but why can a 4 stroke run Ti Rods but not a 2 stroke? Is it because of the needle bearings? Ok, then why must we use a needle bearing? Is it because we can not get oil to the bearing with pre-mix if it is not a needle bearing? Sorry, asking for a friend

**jasonu** · 23rd May 2018, 02:21

Originally Posted by wax

Has anyone here ever moved the anti rotation pin in a piston. I am having issues getting the right pistons and its looking like i will have to have them moved. Any body done it before ??

We used to do that to MB100 pistons when using them in RG400 cylinders. No big deal as long as you have access to the correct people/equipment