what dya all think of this?

**FROSTY:Me** · 12th February 2005, 14:01

Yea i hear what you guys are saying but MNZ has said the 650's are in for the next 5 years at least. Interestingly enough Ive done a shit load of research and the truth re HP is a heap different from reality
A good NZ new ZXR400 With a little bit of breathing work is putting out 69 HP -Thats dyno measured HP.
Despite all the bullshit being bandied around the LEGAL sv650 carbed are only putting out 67-70hp at the back wheel. (im not talking the new injected ones that put out truck loads more) Thats actuall Dyno tested HP figures on the SV series bkes that suzuki NZ had a couple of years ago.
Yep they grunt outa corners better than a multi -but thats what a v twin does best.
The Cagiva raptor funnily enough is more grunty yet has the same basic motor.
KK I hear what youre saying -- I cant afford to keep pouring the huge amount of time and money Im doing into mella yella. You could argue Im unlucky --or ya could argue Im a mechanical fuckwit but I just can't handle the head damage of not knowing if my bike is gonna run propperly or not.
Mella yella so far owes me the national debt. to make matters worse After a little frank and open discussion with Hoon I realised Mella yella aint fast -it was just geared better than Hoons bike for Pukie and maybee im a lil more stupid than Hoon on Jennian and the hairpin.So Ive wasted a bucket load of money when I can just hop on a production bike and have no more mechanical worries.
Imm seeing the future and I think the 400 multi is gonna be replaced by the 650 twins when the likes of Mt edens are gonna be able to bring second han ones in from japan dirt cheap soon.

**FROSTY:Me** · 12th February 2005, 14:15

Originally Posted by Fluffy Cat

Ya!.I think KK is onto something.When i race against the Duc 900 and SV650's they do not count.Me i 'am racing against the proddy 250's and the proddy 400's.Er whats the point to win when the bike you are on is plainly faster than the others due to cc's?.Why not just get rid of the groupings put a few slower F1 riders in F3 or some TZ250s in there as well!.Just look at some of the jokers in clubmans 150 vs R1 ha ha ha.Whats the point go on someone tell me for f@*& s#@%.They have no balls and should F#@& off and play with someone else.Ooh that feels better!.Back to the sand pit for me i think.Comon peeps really if you cant cut it ride faster,if you cant ride faster practice till you are, don't go buying a bigger bike it's not sporting.

fluffy --you are missing the whole point of Clubmans racing. Its not about winning races its a class specificly for learner or relearner racers.
Guys like Two smoker ,quazi ,6chris6 ,even MR on his first actual track experience. Its to find out if you want to go racing.
I guess its become a bit of a class for bikes that wont fit in any other class--(joe mead on his bandit1200) but thats not what its about.
First meeting--or even first season mixing it with the big boys in the propper race classes is a pretty daunting exersize to say the least.

Hell I was almost literally shitting my dacks my first race in F3

**Fluffy Cat** · 12th February 2005, 16:23

Nah,i did'nt miss the point.I've been watching the races and i have not seen that many new F1 guys around.(nor F2 come to think of it).My first race ever was F3 this season and my first track time ever the year before that.I thought i would be taking the piss if i went for clubmans.As for NZ zxr 400 L models putting out 69 ponies with some breathing work.Well most zxr 400 L models put out around 59 to 63 hp as standard.63hp would be a good one you will get a small gain with an after market pipe but to get to 70hp you will need to do a bit more.Most of the racers in the UK go for a full system and some jetting work.A little bit of match porting and a blueprint will get you a pretty reliable 70hp.There is more to be had with some timing advance volume matched and ported heads(with race fuel).A little bit mor comp and a set of flat sides from an sp are agood idea.As is a larger airbox.Recut valves and blueprint head and you are heading towards 80hp.More if you need it from some crank work and big bore kit.Gets kind of expensive.As you said the 400's are a dying breed.Me i'am on a 250 and started out with 45hp i guess its putting out about 50 to 55hp at the moment.Its a pitty that the SV is such a dull bike to look at and ride as standard.There is no choice more is the pitty at this time.The top sv race bikes are not cheap either.I guess times change but its hard to swallow when its an SV650

At the end of the day most races are won with a good rider and cash.But we are racing in F3 not moto gp.I thought the idea of F3 was to get you into racing without busting the bank.Guess some people take it kind of seriously.Now if they would only put in a bend on the back straight at Puke that would be interesting.I think its a good idea to have evenly matched bikes in the groups makes it the rider not the bike that makes the difference and i think thats what KK and I were trying to say.

**avgas** · 12th February 2005, 17:19

Originally Posted by Fluffy Cat

Just look at some of the jokers in clubmans 150 vs R1 ha ha ha.Whats the point go on someone tell me for f@*& s#@%.They have no balls and should F#@& off and play with someone else.

I miss my 2 stroke

failed oil pump

**FROSTY:Me** · 12th February 2005, 19:07

Originally Posted by Fluffy Cat

Nah,i did'nt miss the point.I've been watching the races and i have not seen that many new F1 guys around.(nor F2 come to think of it).My first race ever was F3 this season and my first track time ever the year before that.I thought i would be taking the piss if i went for clubmans.As for NZ zxr 400 L models putting out 69 ponies with some breathing work.Well most zxr 400 L models put out around 59 to 63 hp as standard.63hp would be a good one you will get a small gain with an after market pipe but to get to 70hp you will need to do a bit more.Most of the racers in the UK go for a full system and some jetting work.A little bit of match porting and a blueprint will get you a pretty reliable 70hp.There is more to be had with some timing advance volume matched and ported heads(with race fuel).A little bit mor comp and a set of flat sides from an sp are agood idea.As is a larger airbox.Recut valves and blueprint head and you are heading towards 80hp.More if you need it from some crank work and big bore kit.Gets kind of expensive.As you said the 400's are a dying breed.Me i'am on a 250 and started out with 45hp i guess its putting out about 50 to 55hp at the moment.Its a pitty that the SV is such a dull bike to look at and ride as standard.There is no choice more is the pitty at this time.The top sv race bikes are not cheap either.I guess times change but its hard to swallow when its an SV650

At the end of the day most races are won with a good rider and cash.But we are racing in F3 not moto gp.I thought the idea of F3 was to get you into racing without busting the bank.Guess some people take it kind of seriously.Now if they would only put in a bend on the back straight at Puke that would be interesting.I think its a good idea to have evenly matched bikes in the groups makes it the rider not the bike that makes the difference and i think thats what KK and I were trying to say.

mate I totally agree -The way race meetings are run at the base level is all wrong. Ive always thought that the idea of graded races would work better than the normal classes. A B C D even E grade -determined by lap times in practice for the first race. That way the racing would be well matched.

**gav** · 13th February 2005, 09:29

It seems the future for F3 will be 650 twins, its just a shame their is not more to choose from. A grid full of SV650's will be disappointing. F3 was always so cool because you had a variety of bikes, maybe they could introduce pre 1990 600 4 cylinders say?

**FROSTY:Me** · 13th February 2005, 16:35

well anyhoo I bought the darn thing anyways.Ill probably finish this season on mella yella and just do a couple of track days on the new beastie.

**6Chris6** · 13th February 2005, 17:44

Better start shakin in ya boots you lot because the mighty TZR went for it's first test run yesterday and is running mighty fine

Still taking it a little easy on the new p and r's but just started to feel the POWER VALVES ( :spudbooge ) kick in before buttoning off.
50 (alledged) ponies of pure power comin to a track near you

**FROSTY:Me** · 13th February 2005, 21:43

ok bruvver--well ya need to be doing 1.11s at pukie first time out then

**Kwaka-Kid** · 13th February 2005, 21:48

you just never know.

We have seen the likes of TS do just that... not 1:11 exactly, but went out there on yah bike and showed us all how it can be done F3 virgin styles, damn he was broke in the hard and fast way.

Anywas from what i saw @ our local racetrack running in the TZR250 all i can say is he is certainly blending in well with the machine - however chris man take it easy, youre already crankin the beast and weaving it faster then its little forks and pogo up and down to keep up with that im afraid that you may find the limit real fast and real hard! :P Take it easy dude, youll be right.

**Two Smoker** · 13th February 2005, 21:55

Originally Posted by XJ/FROSTY

wonder how it would look in yellow

i think it would look like SVS's SV650 with a fairing....

**FROSTY:Me** · 14th February 2005, 07:26

guys theres a viffer 400 race bike on trade me real cheapv.

**svs** · 14th February 2005, 13:13

just had to rise to the bait for this one...

Since when does the SV cost $$$? I bought mine because it was cheaper than a 400 and I haven't had to spend anything on it in a seasons racing (compare that with mella yella). And I used to race an RGV - The SV is much cheaper to run than that.

More ponies. Don't think you'll find they're that far out. Even Terry Fitzgeralds'. I was talking to him at wanganui and I was suprised how much it wasn't making. And HP isn't everything - In clubmans last year I was running similar lap times to some of the guys on the 600's - They had 30-40hp more than me, so it can't all be down to that.

How much are the 450's putting out these days? Do they count if you're on a proddy 400 or do they not count either.

I still reckon the fastest rider would win. Be it on a 650 twin or a 400 four. Saying that, the SV is a sweet handling bike and has the torque to pull out of corners. Makes it good at twisty tracks like taupo. I didn't have enough power to pass hoon down the back straight at pukekohoe.

Whatever happens, they're not making the 400's like they used to, the 250 2 strokes have dropped out of production too, so what do you suggest should be the future for F3? You can't have everyone running on 10-15 year old bikes, and there has to be some step before you hit F2/SuperSport.

**White trash** · 14th February 2005, 15:27

Originally Posted by svs

just had to rise to the bait for this one...

Since when does the SV cost $$$? I bought mine because it was cheaper .....blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ...... on 10-15 year old bikes, and there has to be some step before you hit F2/SuperSport.

Aggree with all of this. Well done.

**Kwaka-Kid** · 14th February 2005, 20:07

cant say i dont agree with anything u say SVS.

And i was one of the first to stand up in another thread and say it had to be SV650's or else F3 will die as the 400's get crashed about.

It doesnt change the fact that the sv stock vs a 400 stock is a far better bike. fullstop.

And because of that there is tension in the air at the meets. and SVS hell dude i reckon ur all good in my books and yeah i raced yah at pukekohe and yeah it was fun

i honestly aint saying that i dont want SV's in, they have to be allowed in otherwise they have no other class... all im trying to get across is that theres a difference, we are the lower-class race.

And was only really getting that across because i reckon Tony woulda been better off staying on mella yella. for sure.

I work heaps too, and work on everybody elses bikes before my own. and my VFR400 hasnt cost me a cent since i bought it, just about not even in tyres

. And yeah she "needs" a valve grind, and yeah she "needs" to have the valves shimmed, and for sure while im at it she "needs" to have both heads skimmed. Infact hte simplist thing she "needs" is to be jetted correctly for the home made pipe, and then she "needs" to be balanced.

So i could go do all that and end up with a bill like tonys. But apart from being a little slower is it not still a racebike worth racing?... hell yes! and hell with work "needing" to be done i will still ride her and ride her to the best of my abilities to have fun! Sure as hell is alot more fun having only say 50hp against 60hp if that comes with a $6000 bill, i dont like them apples.

meh. I dunno

everybody to their own but id rather be racing on a shitter as the underdog then be broke out of racing going for the HP.