The turning "right hand" rule - need clarification

[robboh]

Why do people speed up on passing lanes or drive fast on straights and not keep the same "pace" around corners?? New Zealanders are educated inappropriately when it comes to the roads. They're educated, just not well enough. I'm the type of person they reckons more education not more restrictions (e.g. laws) improves road safety.

For two reasons.
1) Its been shown that the wider the road, the faster people will unconsciously go. I even seem to recall some basic rule of thumb, eg 5km per 500mm wider road. So basically, they get to a passing lane, and its wider, so they speed up.

2) Road users are generally inconsiderate, self-absorbed, un-aware personages, sitting in their own little isolated world. And I seriously wonder about the intelligence and which weetbix box they got their license and driving instruction from.

I think modern cars actually have a lot to answer for this too, with so much sound deadening and over-servoed, dead, controls which further isolate them from what their car is doing.

I find myself driving not as well in my missus new Rav4 when compared to my older car. ONE of my pet peeves is people who cant keep a constant speed on the open road, even on a straight. I find that more difficult in the Rav as you dont really hear the change in engine pitch (and the Rav is an automatic which makes it worse, seems very unresponsive to fine throttle control, especially on slight hils) and so its easy to drop 5km/hr without noticing it.


As for the road rules. In an uncontrolled intersection, in a cage, if they are going to hit YOU in the drivers door, then YOU give way. Simple as that.

On controlled, or semi-controlled intersections (signs / lights), the controls take precedence and then the GWTTR rule applies after that.

EG If you are not controlled, person on Give Way sign gives way to you. If you are both on Give Way, then GWTTR applies. As does Turning Traffic gives way to straight ahead.

As for your example, I have one of these uncontrolled T-intersections at the end of my road, and the number of times I have been Big Red and just had Blue bowl around the corner is ridiculous!! Partially, I think, because people ARE so used to the vast majority of T-intersections having a GiveWay on the joining road.

Then of course there is the opposite. You are blue, and give way like a good citizen should, and the dumb sheep in big-red sits there looking stupidly at you, wondering why you havent gone around the corner.

You being in a turning bay would have no bearing on things. And also, it used to be that if you were going to turn right, but couldnt immediately, that you would have to pull to the very left. So you will still occasionally have people doing that to you too

As far as Im aware (and I stand to be corrected if Im wrong), but a T-intersection created by a car-park entrance (or driveway etc) is a special case, where the person entering the road, ALWAYS gives way.
EDIT: As per below. I AM wrong. Public CarPark entrance does abide by standard rules. Does anyone know how to do a strikethrough on this forum?

[ckai]

For two reasons.
1) Its been shown that the wider the road, the faster people will unconsciously go. I even seem to recall some basic rule of thumb, eg 5km per 500mm wider road. So basically, they get to a passing lane, and its wider, so they speed up.

2) Road users are generally inconsiderate, self-absorbed, un-aware personages, sitting in their own little isolated world. And I seriously wonder about the intelligence and which weetbix box they got their license and driving instruction from.

I think modern cars actually have a lot to answer for this too, with so much sound deadening and over-servoed, dead, controls which further isolate them from what their car is doing.

I find myself driving not as well in my missus new Rav4 when compared to my older car. ONE of my pet peeves is people who cant keep a constant speed on the open road, even on a straight. I find that more difficult in the Rav as you dont really hear the change in engine pitch (and the Rav is an automatic which makes it worse, seems very unresponsive to fine throttle control, especially on slight hils) and so its easy to drop 5km/hr without noticing it.

Totally agree with you here. I love cruise control and it sure shows up people's inconsistent speed.

Also, I meet a chick once who I didn't get along with right from the start for some reason. Turns out she deliberately tried to piss off as many corner carvers on the road by doing STUPID speeds on the straight and slow around corners. And she wasn't joking about it. I got caught behind her 3 days later!!

Ahhhh, fun times had by all when on public roads.

[Max Preload]

Totally agree with you here. I love cruise control and it sure shows up people's inconsistent speed.

Yep, I use cruise control plenty. Case in point, regarding people's inconsistent speed: I was on the southern motorway late on Tuesday night. I set the cruise control at 104km/h just off the Newmarket Viaduct. Traffic was very light. I was in the second lane from the barrier the entire trip except when overtaking when I used the right lane. There was a right lane hog woman that I caught just before Penrose and by doing the same speed I'd done the whole time her position varied by mine by plus and minus 100m and I think I undertook her three times before Manukau.

[MSTRS:Me]

Why do people speed up on passing lanes or drive fast on straights and not keep the same "pace" around corners??

And why are old men in hats allowed to drive?

New Zealanders are educated inappropriately when it comes to the roads. They're educated, just not well enough.

Actually, the education doled out in this country, from age 5+ is missing one crucial component....
How to think for yourself.

[Badjelly]

As far as I'm aware (and I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong), but a T-intersection created by a car-park entrance (or driveway etc) is a special case, where the person entering the road, ALWAYS gives way.

Consider yourself corrected then .

According to the road code,

An intersection is where:
* two or more streets or roads join or cross
* a public entrance or exit joins a street or road.

The intersection between a public entrance or exit and a road has the same priority rules as any other intersection.

The intersection between a private driveway and a road isn't an intersection at all (in the above sense) so the give way rules in the road code don't apply. But I'm not sure what the applicable rules are, if any. Is there a rule that says a vehicle entering a roadway must give way to vehicles already on the roadway? That seems reasonable. However if the driveway is wide enough for only one vehicle, then it makes sense for the vehicle entering to give way to the vehicle leaving.

[robboh]

Consider yourself corrected then .

According to the road code,

The intersection between a public entrance or exit and a road has the same priority rules as any other intersection.

The intersection between a private driveway and a road isn't an intersection at all (in the above sense) so the give way rules in the road code don't apply. But I'm not sure what the applicable rules are, if any. Is there a rule that says a vehicle entering a roadway must give way to vehicles already on the roadway? That seems reasonable. However if the driveway is wide enough for only one vehicle, then it makes sense for the vehicle entering to give way to the vehicle leaving.

Thanks! I must have gotten myself confuzzled with the private v's public entrance. I do seem to recall that a public carpark is still actually considered to be 'a road'. Must be time to do another Road-Code review. I havent read it in about 5 years (except to review the new roundabout indication rules)

That will help with getting out of Wendys on Hillsborough Rd (Im always turning right), though I have a funny feeling it has no sign, but does have a single white line across the exit lane.

[pzkpfw]

On a slightly related topic - why do the entrances/exits on shops on one-way streets have to match the left/right on roads?

I know it would confuse many people, but it would make so much more sense. (Some bollards would stop people stuffing it up.)

That is, people turning in would help make gaps for people coming out.

Currently, people cross-over, so it all gets jammed.

e.g. Wellington, people going in/out of New World on Murphy street on busy mornings.

[MSTRS:Me]

It's madness.

Why? Seems perfectly straightforward to me....
Purple is not affected
Red is not affected
Dark Blue, Green and Light Blue all give way to Red
Light Blue also gives way to Green
Yellow gives way to Light Blue (if L.Blue can proceed), otherwise Y. has a free turn.

[BMWST?]

On a slightly related topic - why do the entrances/exits on shops on one-way streets have to match the left/right on roads?

I know it would confuse many people, but it would make so much more sense. (Some bollards would stop people stuffing it up.)

That is, people turning in would help make gaps for people coming out.

Currently, people cross-over, so it all gets jammed.

e.g. Wellington, people going in/out of New World on Murphy street on busy mornings.

more to the point why dont they seperate the entrances altogether.....enter on murphy exit on molesworth or both on pipitea