Steering damper, who's got what and are you hapy with it?

**pete.ktm** · 10th March 2009, 11:36

just waiting for some prices from my local shop b4 i decide which damper.

current plan is a roc stomper, gpr's seem to have possible leaking problems and scotts a bit too much $.

i was going for a "no dampen on return to centre" model but after reading the motorsportz damper site maybe there is something to have dampening on return to center. so do i get the roc stomper original with dampening on return to centre or advanced with no dampening. anyone have any opinions?

i'm only doing trail rides so i'm sure anything would be all good.

cheers

**Danger** · 10th March 2009, 13:17

Pete I can think of no good reason why you would want the damper to dampen back to centre, you want the wheel to find the straight ahead direction at speed, and when cornering the damper does not do much. I recommend the advanced unit if your going with the Roc Stomper, worth the extra $100.00 in my opinion.

**pete.ktm** · 10th March 2009, 13:26

from motosportz.com...

Non free to center. There are two philosophies to steering dampers. Free to center and not free to center. Some dampers only damp while going away from center, coming back they have little or no damping. Some dampers have the same amount of damping in both directions. There are pluses and minuses to both designs but we feel the damping in both directions design, if implemented right is the best, here is why. If you are in and corner and you hit something on the inside like a root or rock there is no damping force helping to keep you on track and your bars are free to whip back towards center. Also if you are in a rock garden and deflections are occurring from both sides, especially turning in a corner in a rock garden you are again left with no deflection protection from the outside to the center. Additionally when charging through a fast sandy whoop section and you start to swap a free to center designed damper is only going to control half that oscillation. A non free to center damper is in our opinion much better at high speed oscillation damping.

of course the fact they sell a dampened return to center version may have some bearing on their opionion.

i hate choices

**warewolf** · 10th March 2009, 13:29

Some MSC dampers offer three settings: MX, Desert & Cross-Country, all have full damping away from centre.

MX has no damping on return to centre.
Desert has half damping on return.
XC has full damping on return.

That implies that different styles and terrain benefit from different damping characteristics. In the adventure world, most people use the Desert or CC setting. It's possible that the higher speeds reflect the road-riding style where damping is usually full both ways?

**Ktmboy** · 10th March 2009, 19:31

Originally Posted by Danger

Pete I can think of no good reason why you would want the damper to dampen back to centre, you want the wheel to find the straight ahead direction at speed, and when cornering the damper does not do much. I recommend the advanced unit if your going with the Roc Stomper, worth the extra $100.00 in my opinion.

What he said..It helps on tight tracks in amongst trees when you hit a knarly root. You need to centre quickly to stay on line. otherwise you end up fighting the thing all day.

**Reckless** · 10th March 2009, 19:51

ok so let me get this??

Motosportz and to some degree Warewolf by his post are saying return damping is helpful when your front wheel gets knocked in the opposite direction (from the inside) like on the rock bed, root or when you get twisted up when hitting a whoop wrong (know how that feels).

And Danger and Ktmboy are saying if you have return damping you end up fighting it.
So in saying that I can only surmise that when you turn in you turn slower or turn by leaning the bike and/or weighting the bike on the inside with your foot or all of the above! Therefore not employing the damping effect unless your wheel gets hit by something and turns fast or you get a tank slapper. But when you turn back to straight you turn fast enough to employ the damper if it has return damping and therefore and up fighting the damper.

As long as I have assumed correctly there are two different theories here!

So other than spending two grand on two dampers to find out which you prefer, buy one that you can turn the return damping off if you hate it???

Like this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=207066286

So why would Ohlins put high, low speed and return damping on that one??

More info required please team??

**pete.ktm** · 10th March 2009, 20:36

Originally Posted by Reckless

So why would Ohlins put "high and low speed" return damping on that one??

looking at ohlins web site they have these part numbers for the model before the new SD 2.0 (which has adjustable damping back to center):

Part No. SD 415 (damping both ways).
Part No. SD 425 (no damping back to center).

so it looks like it isn't quite black and white. maybe it's like msc say, for some types of offroading it's better to have it and some it's not. trail rides would be closest to cross country and msc say you want it.

was going to order one tomorrow but maybe i'll do a little more googling and wait for a few more replies.

**Reckless** · 10th March 2009, 20:55

Their web site lists a part number for my 08 Ktm200 its an SD561 but looks like theyve only produced them for a few models. They do look very sexy though!
Can't afford one for a fair while as I've just dropped my forks and shock off the Danger to work his Magic!

Still like my questions answered so I understand better from those that have them??

**warewolf** · 10th March 2009, 21:48

See Robert Taylor's comments (click the arrow to view the entire post & thread):

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

The rotary dampers ( Ohlins / Scotts ) introduce external low speed and high speed compression adjustment, but frankly that is good for Enduro / MX and less so for road / road race.

Might be worth asking RT to explain both high/low and return/not?

**warewolf** · 10th March 2009, 22:23

Originally Posted by Ktmboy

when you hit a knarly root. You need to centre quickly to stay on line.

That... doesn't make sense to me, am I missing something? Surely the whole point with the damper is that there's no centreing required because the bars haven't been knocked off centre? With a damper, the bars stay straight and the bike climbs up over the root with little input from the rider.

I haven't thoroughly investigated all this as I'm not in the market to buy one short term. I've just made a mental note that there are various return-to-centre options I should consider when the time comes. I have a vague recollection of people trying the various settings (adjustable dampers) on adventure bikes and wanting at least some return-to-centre damping.

Which is why it would be worth asking someone like RT. Or have a hunt around on a KTM hard parts website and see if they list different styles for mx vs xc.

Trying to think it through, about the only time you want the bars held off-centre is turning in to a corner. This is probably a longer process in XC than MX, and the likelihood of hitting something is higher in XC. Hence the desire for damping on return-to-centre: so you don't get pushed wide/off-line when turning in.

OK another scenario: hanging the rear out in a long powerslide, in which case the bars are held off-centre for a relatively long time. Return-to-centre damping perhaps helps to stop the rear end snapping viciously back in to line... and possibly reducing the chance of a high-side?

Discuss!

**Danger** · 10th March 2009, 23:28

The only time I want my damper to dampen "my input" into the steering action is when I'm not putting "any input" into the steering other than traveling in a straight line. Its only needed to protect against a side ways deflection from the wheel on an angled root, rock or tree stump or enable me to have a looser grip on the bars. I do not want any dampening coming into effect when cornering, so I also adjust the sweep adjustment to the minimum 34 degrees (I think only the Scotts Ohlins offer this feature).

The sweep adjustment on my Scotts Ohlins dampers changes the release point of the dampers range of resistance or sweep and is adjustable from 34-44-54 and 78 degress. This allows the adjustment of the breakaway point as needed as well as reduce arm pump caused by unnecessary resistance in a range that does not require damping, or in my preference a lack of resistance in returning to centre. No damping back to the centreline allows for a lighter feel on the steering and easier maneuverability in the tight turns.

Its cheaper to make a damper that dampens in both directions with only oriface style damping, several check valves need to be incorporated into a damper that offers no damping back to centre, so the cheaper designs are going to promote their cheaper models as being of advantage.
The newer Ohlins model will promote the use of these features (but theirs is selectable and not cheap) to try and get you to spend $1300-$1400 on the new model.
You need to decide what you want, I have used dampers for a long time and have only given my opinions from my own experience. If you are trying to mask handling deficiencies due to other factors with a damper you may require something different to what I need.

**Reckless** · 11th March 2009, 10:02

Great Danger! Exactly what we needed so a damper with adjustable sweep is a good thing to have as well.
As you say some other people might like their dampers set up differently but its good to have a thorough piece of advice on how and why you set yours.

Main thing I get is to have enough adjustment to be able to set it so its not doing its thing when you don't feel you need it.

So return damping may be OK to have, but as long as you can adjust it back to a level that your not fighting against it. So if you can really feel the dampers effect in either direction you probably have it set to harshly. As you describe you have yours adjusted so it only effects you where you feel it necessary. An aide thats there but you don't know it till its not or you ride your bike without it. I can see that an overly set up damper would tire you more then aide you!

That's wonderful Cheers mate!

**sdotmac** · 11th March 2009, 12:28

I've ridden WER, Scotts, new Ohlins and GPR. Bought a Scotts years ago and have fitted it to every bike i've owned.

My criteria was it mustn't be noticed but must work, which is why I didn't like the WER and GPR (of the time) as both damped back to centre and gave a treacly steering feel that required input where I thought it shouldn't have.
To me back-to-centre damping is useful if you have an injury/are completely knackered/are doing mental-speed California desert racing.

You've read all the advantages already but the main thing was - faster, for longer, for less effort. Noticeable seconds off MX laptimes on rough tracks prove the pudding to me too. Worth every penny. Have never adjusted the sweep or high speed, and run the low speed damping one or two clicks lower than standard.

Worth noting the new Ohlins has RTCr. that can be turned on or off. Rode one in the weekend and found things were still the same - bike felt a bit wheelbarrow-ish to ride with it on, but felt great with it off. Invisible and more stable. If you can afford it, get it. Sexy and fits neatly under the bars without any extra riser nonsense (ridden a few damped bikes with chopper bars where you can;t weight the front wheel properly)

**pete.ktm** · 11th March 2009, 22:53

3 opinions for "no return to center dampening" and the distributor of the roc stompa says the "no return to center dampening" version outsells the "return to center dampening" version 10 to 1, guess i'm convinced.

thanx for your help guys.