Ray Shearman - whaaaaaaaaat?

[Slyer]

Hey at least drunk riding isn't an issue, they usually don't last long.
We also cause less damage to other road users/pedestrians/property.

[Ocean1]

Good point. We'll set it up.

A published plan and a 'donate' button on the web site would be a good start.

Excellent idea.

Should we as a body devise testing and training regime that targets new and returning riders and asks for a 5 yearly re-test for all motorcyclists? Submit it to Government to show that we do get it and we want to fix it?

Yes.

Who wears the "body"

I think your idea has merit. We don't have a BRONZ in Welly do we?

See above.

Mebe it's time eh?

[James Deuce]

Hey at least drunk riding isn't an issue, they usually don't last long.
We also cause less damage to other road users/pedestrians/property.

Weigh that up against those with spinal injuries who need 24x7 intense care from over worked spouses as a result of not damaging the scenery as much. Pretty poor trade off.

[Swoop]

It's a Stuff poll.

Another "public survey" that will be brought up by the weenies in Wellington's circular windtunnel...
Stuff polls are not scientific and reflect the opinions of only those internet users who have chosen to participate
But that will not stand in the way of "progress".

Trying to organise bikers is just like trying to pitchfork ball-bearings.

[Gubb]

I'll do my best to be at the next BRONZ meeting. I would like to see what it's all about.

[The Stranger:Me]

I think your idea has merit. We don't have a BRONZ in Welly do we?

Correct, as Jim mentioned "How do you get a committed body of people engaged and working hard in the face of an overt threat? It's quite difficult to convince the average Kiwi that they need to act rather than moan."

[smoky]

Nothing except exemplary road user behavior from motorcyclists is going to help change the perception that we're just a bunch of hedonistic dickwads.

I don’t reckon it’ll make any difference, Considering the majority of us do ride safely and considerate of other vehicles; it will take years to change the image of bikers, TV, movies and the populous portrayal of the ‘James Dean rebel’ on a bike will endure and impact peoples impression of us regardless of how we behave.

Stop filtering, stop lane splitting, stop flipping the bird to people, stop smacking their mirrors off, stop speeding, stop stunting on public roads, stop over taking in places that the average non-motorcyclist can't concieve of as safe, stop riding with your high beams on, get rid of your mirrored visor, stop wearing all black, stop wearing hi-vis vests, stop riding white motorcycles, stop putting ear-splitting after market exhausts on bikes, stop riding in giant groups that look like a gang outing. Don't bag other motorcyclists to non-motorcyclists.

Ok I can understand about smacking their mirrors off, stunting on public roads, and maybe the after market cans, but the rest is subjective; no matter how safe we consider our overtaking to be there’ll be someone who will think it was unsafe.
But what’s the problem with filtering & lane splitting as long as it’s done legally, but what’s wrong with mirrored visors?
And why on earth have you included white motorcycles & hi-vis vests, what’s that about?
As for riding in groups – that’s much safer than riding by your self (depending on the group I guess).

Just a couple of months. Ride like Policeman for two months. The death and injury toll will plummet

Hmmmm- I’ve seen a few of them fall over; their injury rate isn’t much better than normal bike riders.

[smoky]

Who on earth elected the Canterbury regional co-ordinator of Motorcycling New Zealand, Ray Shearman? He's a plonker. Who gave him a mandate to speak for motorcyclists? He missed the obvious points;
They say the number of injuries to motor cyclists has doubled but then they only quote the cost, which has doubled - not the actual number of injuries, and I would suggest since 2000 (8years) the cost would've of increased by at lest 50% inline with other health services, then add on inflation and we might have a real figure to work from?
Now add on the increase of 16,000 new motorcycles registered, and we probably had a net drop in number of injured motorcyclists per motorcycles on the road?
Then take out the number of injuries from unregistered motorcyclist - farm bikes and quad-bikes, trail bike accidents and the like - and what would the figure be then?
Then as mentioned by others - how many of those accidents were as a result of poor riding rather than caused by the other motorist?
It's a shabby bit of journalism and an even poorer response from a plonker presumed to speak on behalf of motorcyclist.
John Hartevelt should stop being lazy and do the research instead of looking for headlines - give us the real picture.
Get your act together Ray Shearman - if you want to speak for motorcyclist then at lest be informed and make some valid points on our behalf – instead of stupid comment about women drivers, and bikes being ‘cheap transport’ – how many bikes are actually cheaper to run than a small car now days when you add up the real cost of running?
(Actually my Bandit uses more fuel per klm than my Toyota, and then the amount of tyres I go thru… it’s not cheap)

[James Deuce]

I don’t reckon it’ll make any difference, Considering the majority of us do ride safely and considerate of other vehicles; it will take years to change the image of bikers, TV, movies and the populous portrayal of the ‘James Dean rebel’ on a bike will endure and impact peoples impression of us regardless of how we behave.




Ok I can understand about smacking their mirrors off, stunting on public roads, and maybe the after market cans, but the rest is subjective; no matter how safe we consider our overtaking to be there’ll be someone who will think it was unsafe.
But what’s the problem with filtering & lane splitting as long as it’s done legally, but what’s wrong with mirrored visors?
And why on earth have you included white motorcycles & hi-vis vests, what’s that about?
As for riding in groups – that’s much safer than riding by your self (depending on the group I guess).



Hmmmm- I’ve seen a few of them fall over; their injury rate isn’t much better than normal bike riders.

Riding in Groups is THE most dangerous thing you can do as a motorcyclist. Plenty of International statistics to back that one up.

Most motorcyclists DON'T ride safely, most motorcyclists DON'T split safely or legally.

However that's NOT what I'm talking about, and your comments highlight what I'm talking about.

Motorcyclists are completely unwilling to accept that they are less than perfect. What I'm asking you to do is very easy and requires something that most motorcyclists appear to lack. Self discipline. It will help. We'll disappear from the radar. That's all we need right now.

What do you base your comments on about Motorcycle cops? I know of two accidents in the last 12 months and one of them would have been fatal for the average motorcyclist.

[James Deuce]

Who on earth elected the Canterbury regional co-ordinator of Motorcycling New Zealand, Ray Shearman? He's a plonker. Who gave him a mandate to speak for motorcyclists? He missed the obvious points;
They say the number of injuries to motor cyclists has doubled but then they only quote the cost, which has doubled - not the actual number of injuries, and I would suggest since 2000 (8years) the cost would've of increased by at lest 50% inline with other health services, then add on inflation and we might have a real figure to work from?
Now add on the increase of 16,000 new motorcycles registered, and we probably had a net drop in number of injured motorcyclists per motorcycles on the road?
Then take out the number of injuries from unregistered motorcyclist - farm bikes and quad-bikes, trail bike accidents and the like - and what would the figure be then?
Then as mentioned by others - how many of those accidents were as a result of poor riding rather than caused by the other motorist?
It's a shabby bit of journalism and an even poorer response from a plonker presumed to speak on behalf of motorcyclist.
John Hartevelt should stop being lazy and do the research instead of looking for headlines - give us the real picture.
Get your act together Ray Shearman - if you want to speak for motorcyclist then at lest be informed and make some valid points on our behalf – instead of stupid comment about women drivers, and bikes being ‘cheap transport’ – how many bikes are actually cheaper to run than a small car now days when you add up the real cost of running?
(Actually my Bandit uses more fuel per klm than my Toyota, and then the amount of tyres I go thru… it’s not cheap)

There's no point ranting about the administrator of a regional arm of the National Racing body. Someone plucked a name with "motorcycle" in it out of the phone book and asked an old man to make a comment for all NZ motorcyclists.

The fuel thing is an important point. We've lost the one thing we could point at and say we are a valid alternative to cars because we use less fuel, mainly because motorcyclists want performance or tradition above all else.

[smoky]

Riding in Groups is THE most dangerous thing you can do as a motorcyclist. Plenty of International statistics to back that one up.

I don't agree, but I don't have any statistics on it - I don't think you do either - feel free to prove me wrong with all those "International statistics"
It seems to me that you are way more visible than when you’re by yourself.

motorcyclists DON'T ride safely, most motorcyclists DON'T split safely or legally.

I don't agree at all - I would say the vast majority of people I ride with are safe riders 90% of the time - we all get it wrong now and then - but I think car drivers actually make more mistakes on the road than the average bike rider! But again no statistic, just my experience. But where do you get off being our moral judge and declaring us all unsafe on the road!!!

What I'm asking you to do is very easy and requires something that most motorcyclists appear to lack. Self discipline.

You seem to lump us all in with the few - You're sounding very arrogant - I bet you ride a Honda
It's only your perception of things - You're entitled to your opinion; but that's all it is - your opinion.
Yes there are some terrible bike riders around, and yes there are some good riders who exercise a bit of poor judgement on occasions – but I hardly think we’re all ill disciplined bad riders doing illegal shit on the road, and I think if you took a snap shot of all motorists on the road it wouldn’t be any different.

what do you base your comments on about Motorcycle cops? I know of two accidents in the last 12 months and one of them would have been fatal for the average motorcyclist.

So cops are more than average bike riders and have skills we don't?
I know 4 cops on bikes, ride with one of them regularly.
My brother in law was a bike cop for a number of years
Yes they get some extra bike riding training - it could be argued that all motorcyclists get the same training. But I can assure you they still come off, they still injure them selves at about the same ratio as normal motorcyclist – in fact I saw a report back n the mid 80's suggesting they scrap motorcycle cops due to the risk of injury being to high.
I remember laughing at part of the report showing how many cops injured them selves while stationary, getting on and off the bikes, and the lost days due to minor injuries.

[smoky]

There's no point ranting about the administrator of a regional arm of the National Racing body. Someone plucked a name with "motorcycle" in it out of the phone book and asked an old man to make a comment for all NZ motorcyclists.

The ol’ man should've said he was not qualified to speak on behalf of all motorcyclists - and kept his opinion to himself, unless he had something intelligent to say

[dipshit]

Don't have accidents, don't get pinged doing anything illegal. See if you can do it for a couple of months, so you don't screw up the next couple of decades.

Yeah, but with dicks like that Ray Shearman and BRONZ trying to shift all the blame to car drivers and trying to make it sound like motorcyclist's shit doesn't stink - how likely is that to happen..?

Because most motorcyclists swallow that PR bullshit as well.

[Big Dave]

BRONZ trying to shift all the blame to car drivers

That is contemptible dribble.
The Policy statements are online.

[James Deuce]

I don't agree, but I don't have any statistics on it - I don't think you do either - feel free to prove me wrong with all those "International statistics"
It seems to me that you are way more visible than when you’re by yourself.


I don't agree at all - I would say the vast majority of people I ride with are safe riders 90% of the time - we all get it wrong now and then - but I think car drivers actually make more mistakes on the road than the average bike rider! But again no statistic, just my experience. But where do you get off being our moral judge and declaring us all unsafe on the road!!!



You seem to lump us all in with the few - You're sounding very arrogant - I bet you ride a Honda
It's only your perception of things - You're entitled to your opinion; but that's all it is - your opinion.
Yes there are some terrible bike riders around, and yes there are some good riders who exercise a bit of poor judgement on occasions – but I hardly think we’re all ill disciplined bad riders doing illegal shit on the road, and I think if you took a snap shot of all motorists on the road it wouldn’t be any different.



So cops are more than average bike riders and have skills we don't?
I know 4 cops on bikes, ride with one of them regularly.
My brother in law was a bike cop for a number of years
Yes they get some extra bike riding training - it could be argued that all motorcyclists get the same training. But I can assure you they still come off, they still injure them selves at about the same ratio as normal motorcyclist – in fact I saw a report back n the mid 80's suggesting they scrap motorcycle cops due to the risk of injury being to high.
I remember laughing at part of the report showing how many cops injured them selves while stationary, getting on and off the bikes, and the lost days due to minor injuries.

I'll provide the stats alright.

Try not to toss words around like "arrogant".

I can tell you for a fact that most motorcyclists don't lanesplit legally. Most, including myself, pass to the left of vehicles due to the traffic's propensity to stick to the right of their lane. I do think most motorcyclists are ill-disciplined. I think this summer in particular is proving a point. Just because you can go like stink doesn't mean you have to.

You're referring to ancient history in regard to your perception of motorcycle cop accidents. The technology alone has changed massively from BMWR65s and R80s, or CB650s.