Researching 70Km L-Plate restriction safety

[Tony]

I have attached a link to our website if you would like further information "
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/rules/progress.html

The actual rule is currently being drafted for public consultation.

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/rul...er-licensing-6

The orginal proposal contains links to other sources of information,which maybe of interest.

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/m...igh+crash+rate

Rumour has it that it may become law by April.

Many thanks for the links and info Bryan

[Tony]

My resarch so far has taken two paths.

1. Finding research papers that quote the increased risk (but don't detil the specific risks)

2. Researching the specific risks (scenarios) that account for the increased risks.

So far the list of specific risks I have compiled is as below. If anyone can add to this partial list it would be much appreciated.

Learner speed limit restrictions on motorways and the open road may contribute to safety risks in the following ways

1.Increased speed differential of initial impact ( An initial rear or frontal impact from a speed differential of 30km per hour will often not prove fatal to a driver protected by a car but will often be fatal to a motorcycle)

2.The loss of the evasive option of changing lanes if the vehicle(s) ahead in the same lane as the motorcyclist are involved in an incident. A vehicle travelling at 70km/h can't readily change lanes into a gap in a stream of traffic travelling at 100 km/h in another lane.

3.Difficulty merging safely with traffic travelling at 100km/h from motorway on-ramps, side streets and from a stationary position from the side of the road. Increased danger of nose to tail accidents caused by vehicles braking unexpectedly.

4.Surprise/ un-preparedness of traffic merging with 70Km vehicle from motorway on-ramps.

5.Increased difficulty in changing lanes safely on the motorway. (Necessary at some motorway junctions and where left hand lanes end at off-ramps)

6.Increased road rage and driver frustration from other road users (Hostile driving and frustrated and dangerous overtaking manoeuvres).

7.Increased incidence of drivers tail gating. Research between 2003 and 2007 shows that 6% of all motorcycle fatalities were from rear end /obstruction. (ref: page 5, http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...-Factsheet.pdf

8.Incidents of car drivers coming along motorcycles and trying to share the lane with them in the same manner as they might do with a bicycle.

9.Increased incidence of drivers mis-judging closing speed when overtaking 70km motorcyclists. (surprisingly common occurrence).

10.Increased and disproportionate time (as much as 60%) spent by motorcyclist keeping an eye on rear view mirrors (as main safety risk at this speed comes from behind.) means less time scanning up the road and side to side looking for potential hazards.

11.Stops or discourages learner riders (particularly those, who because of where they live/work need to traverse through 100km thoroughfares) gaining the experience they should be gaining while on their L-plates

12.Forces young drivers off the highest standard roads onto lower standard, less safe, roads. with more, pedestrians, intersections etc. (ref: page 45, http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc240.pdf. And 24% of fatal motorcycle accidents and 39% of non fatal injury accidents occur at intersections. (ref page 5 m page 5, http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/N...-Factsheet.pdf

13.There is some evidence to suggest that restricting speed limits for novice drivers prevents them from gaining experience at higher speeds and from developing high-speed driving skills (such as freeway merging and rural road driving). (ref: page 45, http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc240.pdf)

It would be possible to conclude that some of the points above indicate that learners should not be allowed to ride on the open road, however this would be ignoring the contrary safety research covered in points 12 and 13 done by Monash university.

If anyone can add to this partial list it would be much appreciated.

[Tony]

Sorry I double posted by accident and only had the option of editing (deleting the content) of this post.

Perhaps one of the moderators could remove this post for me?

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

1. Finding research papers that quote the increased risk (but don't detil the specific risks)

The 70k law was designed when the open road speed limit was 80kph.

90% of car drivers don't realise that the learners are only are only suppose to 70kph on the open road.

Simply put most people on the open road see a bike the automatically think it is doing 100kph +

The learner at 70kph gets pushed to the side of the road which is a bad place to be, the learner does not have the skill to get him or herself out of alot of situations cage drivers can put you in...

At 70kph many cage drivers will get impatient and could force a dangerous overtaking maneuver again putting the learner into strife.

[Tony]

The 70k law was designed when the open road speed limit was 80kph..

Thanks for your help and good points. I have had several people sugges that teh 70k law was introduced when the speed liimit was 50Mph (80km) but so far haven't been able to find the anything written anywhere that confirms the actual date it was introduced.

Can anyone help on this point?

[Tony]

I've just done a quick search of the rode code and the Land Transport act 1998. It seems that there is no law or rule that prevents you driving at 50km/h on the motorway or open road.

All it says is that you need to keep left and be considerate to drivers behind you.

In 1967 a law was introduced that made it an offense to drive unreasonably slowly - but this rule would appear to be no longer on the books.

I have also done a quick look through some of the regions road crash reports. There is a crash contributing factor code (182) for accidents caused by drivers driving unreasonably slowly - but not surprisingly (as there is now no definition of driving unreasonably slowly) not a single accident was ascribed to this crash contributing factor between 2003 and 2007 in any of the report I looked at.

Does anyone know of any rule that a motorist travelling at 50km on the open road could be charged with?

[Tubbsy]

Excellent post. I came looking for something like this on here because today my g/f and I went to Orewa North of Auckland for a ride. She doesn't want to go faster than 70km/h because that's what the law tells us to do. I think, like many on here, that particular law is f$@#$ked!

On the way back to Akl...we were coming up to the harbour bridge and the traffic got really heavy.....not slow enough to be going less than 100km/h...just heavy, and we were stuck in the middle lane because a separate lane opened up outta nowhere from an offramp. I knew we needed to change to the left lane because we were only going 70km/h, but we were surrounded by traffic moving at 100km/h +, so making any lane changes was exceptionally risky and dangerous. I could see her in the rear view mirror about 200ft behind me with cars tailgating and doing stupid dangerous manouvers to get past, so the only thing I could do was slow a bit so there wasn't enough of a gap for them to push in the middle of us too.
Totally put the shits up me to see that and not be able to do anything. On my own I would'a just twisted the throttle and moved in line with traffic speeds, but it was also her first big day on the bike.

Someone said before, car drivers have no idea we are only supposed to do 70km/h, and this was totally evident. This is one f#*#ked rule, and it's dangerous, we are both more than competent enough to be on the open road (I did the Welly to Akl ride 2 weeks ago), and both have mature heads on our shoulders, but my g/f follows the 70km/h rule to the letter, and has her life put in danger as a result. It needs to go NOW!!!


On a cooler note, as we were coming to the bridge, a patched bikey gang rode past on their massive cruisers...about 30 of them...the sound was awesome!!!

[CookMySock]

@Tubsy, mate I hope that didnt scare her her too badly. With respect bro, you two shouldn't really have been there - pretty clear in hindsight I guess. Lecture ends.

@70k rule, it's only there for cornering, as unless the total newbie can can countersteer with the bars, they are up shit creek in a tightish corner and anything above newbie-pace. 90km/hr in a straight line is trivial to anyone at any basic level of experience.

Steve

[CookMySock]

if Harry Dunhoven made the statement that "Road safety research indicates this speed difference issue outweighs any benefit of lower open road speed limits for novice motorcycle riders", the research must be available.

No. The statement "research indicates blah blah blah" is a standard persuasion technique. This is used to add credibility to his argument in such a way that it is not questioned by the listener. What research? By who? What was the purpose of the research - to persuade? Persuade who into believing what? Who commissioned this research?

You get the drift I'm sure.. Watch out what you believe.

Note! I am commenting on the persuasion technique, not the 70k limit.

Steve

[Tubbsy]

Hey Steve, nah she's ok.

Thing is, We didn't know the traffic would be that bad....all the way to Orewa and back it was cruisey, and then suddenly we were surrounded because the barrier mover was doing it's thing and traffic was funneled into a couple of lanes. I have been driving that route for over 6 years, so know my way around there. We just got caught out. And yep...hindsight is good.

Don't know what other way we could have gone though....We live in central akl.

[JMemonic]

No. The statement "research indicates blah blah blah" is a standard persuasion technique. This is used to add credibility to his argument in such a way that it is not questioned by the listener. What research? By who? What was the purpose of the research - to persuade? Persuade who into believing what? Who commissioned this research?

You get the drift I'm sure.. Watch out what you believe.

Note! I am commenting on the persuasion technique, not the 70k limit.

Steve

I kind of see where you are coming from but any credible research should be able to be subjected to review by other parties, the data should be raw and unweighted (unlike statistic NZ data appears), thus any statement "research indicates" to the media is a dangerous proposition when folks can disproved the argument, trouble is if you disprove it no one pays attention.

[CookMySock]

trouble is if you disprove it no one pays attention.

That is because people are sheep. Once they start following people who lead them with "research proves..." type statements, they will believe anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasion

Steve

[Radar]

... but my g/f follows the 70km/h rule to the letter, and has her life put in danger as a result. ...

If your GF insists on following the 70 kph rule then imo she should not be on the motorway and probably not on any 100 kph road unless there is little traffic and there is a decent shoulder for her to keep out of the way. She needs to wait 6 months until she gets her Restricted, then she will be legal going over 70 kph.

This 70 kph rule has been discussed many times on KB and AFAIK no one has been ticketed by the cops for going 100 kph with an L plate on the motorway or open road. The exception would be if an L plate rider would be riding dangerously, foolishly or in some way that would cause the police to stop them - in this case the cop may ticket the rider but even then it seems to depend on the attitude of the rider (if the rider is polite or somehow can smoothly talk their way out of the ticket).

I know of one basic skills examiner who tells their soon-to-be L plate riders NOT to go 70 kph on the open road - if they feel competent doing so - because it can be dangerous (I was there when the examiner said this to my friend).

[RocKai]

6 months is not a stupendously long period of time to go 100kmh unless you're really really eager to go riding...like me. My 6 months is up and soon getting restricted. IMO leaners should be riding 100kmh, Restricted can ride all day and night, and full should be able to carry a pillion. And the time of each period should be 6 months, 12 months respectitively.

I know our woman/female counterparts are hard to persuade, they won't listen to opinions, only what the law tell them. Kudos to you for riding with her.

[FastBikeGear]

This 70 kph rule has been discussed many times on KB and AFAIK no one has been ticketed by the cops for going 100 kph with an L plate on the motorway or open road. The exception would be if an L plate rider would be riding dangerously, foolishly or in some way that would cause the police to stop them - in this case the cop may ticket the rider but even then it seems to depend on the attitude of the rider (if the rider is polite or somehow can smoothly talk their way out of the ticket).

I got a ticket for doing 85 km/h on the motorway instead of 70km/h a few days after Christmas this year. I was doing nothing else to attract attention and the cop (With the ironic name of Mr Toogood, Officer number H918) had no problem with any other aspects of my riding. I am guessing he was just down on his quota. He even said I shouldn't be getting the ticket - but he gave it to me anyway. Strange thing was other than this odd behaviour he seemed a really nice guy.