Great news - Maori only beaches in NZ

[Headbanger]

When I'm dead and buried everyone is welcome to do as they please on the crap piece of land under which I rotted.

Eat, drink, and be merry.

And a big HELL YEAH if someone organises a yearly motorcycle event around my plot.

Land isn't suddenly bestowed as sacred when your standing on it, yet it is when we are under it?

[Waxxa]

First of all, this agreement hasn't been ratified yet so there is no point in getting worked up and anxious over something that hasn't happened.

I would doubt if the beaches would be closed and if some are...so what. Go to another beach.

Also, not all land was sold to the British (on agreeable terms). A lot of land in NZ was confiscated for the most punitive of crimes and the confiscation was well over the top, hundreds and hundreds of acres for ridiculous charges. Some dealings over land was also legitimate sales too.

If the land does belong to the local tribe (owner) then it is the tribe (owner) who has say over who has access and at what times of the year etc and all NZers need to accept that, as you would expect if 'you' had private land and people wanted to walk across it.

I'll give you an example: a few years ago I was heavily involved with rock-climbing down in the Waikato region. All the 'crags' are on private land. Each time we would want to go climbing we would go ask the land owner. If the land owner said 'no' due to lambing for example, we would have to go somewhere else. No problems, no animosity. Respect the land owners.

[Headbanger]

First of all, this agreement hasn't been ratified yet so there is no point in getting worked up and anxious over something that hasn't happened.

I would doubt if the beaches would be closed and if some are...so what. Go to another beach.

1. This is exactly the time to get upset, Pity we don't do more and put a stop to it.

2.The point is it will be closed to white people,This is racist separatist bullshit we as a country should have grown out of rather then building policy around it. You wait and see how the real world effect of this crap pans out.

I some how doubt your lambing example would be so sweet if your told to fuck off coz u eez bleck fella.


Edit.


Now the moment has passed, I don't have any real issue with declaring a few no go areas for historical reasons, If that is all it turns out to be. Though I doubt very strongly that will be the case.

[Finn]

I think Maori are cutting their noses off to spite their faces. They haven't given any thought to the economical impact this decision will have on the greater Maori people. If white folk aren't visiting their beaches, whose cars are they going to break into?

[MSTRS:Me]

I think Maori are cutting their noses off to spite their faces. They haven't given any thought to the economical impact this decision will have on the greater Maori people. If white folk aren't visiting their beaches, whose cars are they going to break into?

Each other's?
Our recent stay at Te kaha was long enough to see what the locals drive and what they outfit their rides with. Flasher than my 2 vehicles. And not a bomb to be seen.
Which surprised me.

[Waxxa]

If the beaches are to be closed, it will be closed for all people, not just WHITE people.

There are beaches around NZ that are in private ownership NOW! that are closed to all NZers, not just Maori or whites or asians or whomever. Do these private beaches (that may be owned by whites) also bother you?

So who is making this a racial issue. Media? individual bias?

Perception and reality are totally different. Lets wait and see what the owners do. Virtually all the land and coast around the East Cape (which is the tribe signing the deal) is maori owned anyway so it's 'status Quo'.

[JimO]

If the beaches are to be closed, it will be closed for all people, not just WHITE people.

There are beaches around NZ that are in private ownership NOW! the deal) is

really??? care to name them

[Ixion]

I'm not aware of any beach in NZ where the beach itself (between high and low water) is in private hands (as opposed to the land access to it). There might be a few but it is very very rare. Estuaries is another matter.

Claims of "private beaches" usually turn out to be where some rich fat cat owns the only access to a beach and throws his weight around if anyone tries to access it from the sea or by walking round the coast (both always legal, AFAIK) .

[FJRider]

I'm not aware of any beach in NZ where the beach itself (between high and low water) is in private hands (as opposed to the land access to it). There might be a few but it is very very rare. Estuaries is another matter.

Claims of "private beaches" usually turn out to be where some rich fat cat owns the only access to a beach and throws his weight around if anyone tries to access it from the sea or by walking round the coast (both always legal, AFAIK) .

There are some, that believe ACCESS to any beach or waterway, is of right, in this country. This is not always the case, if access is only over private land. Regardless of if the owners are brown, white, or other.

[Patrick]

My understanding is that it was passed by Labour, before the election....

True... passed and arranged to be signed... umm... this week! A deliberate act, I feel....

Don't get me started on that lot...
Years ago at Matauri Bay me and my wife were told by his wife to basically fuck off when my wife wanted to use the toilets to change in to her togs.Iwi only was the reply.I was that pissed off that we rode about 50 metres back down the road and I stripped right there in full view.Fucking skinny little honky body would have scared the shit out of them.

Hope you bared your arse at them... apparently it is the ultimate insult?

Only the feathered kind thank you. I was actchoooally is search of Pahutukawa but they had passed their prime.

Also known as The NZ Christmas Tree, and it is called such because....???????

Fuck me another Maori bashing beat-up. Chill people.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10552478

To the social scientists and racist [why are most of you from the south island?] best to check this article before you spout more shite

I stand corrected.... but it was in the Harold that released the original, clearly a wind up story, now this one? Hmmm... call me suspicious....

How does reserve rape and reserve assault work?

-Indy

Both get fucked over in a Reserve.....

really??? care to name them

Piemelon Bay on Waiheke Island? (At least it used to be....)

[Ixion]

But that is not in dispute. There are doubtless many beaches that cannot be accessed except over private property. In such cases it is obviously up to the owner of the land which must be crossed whether he is willing to grant permission or not.

But even when the beach cannot be accessed from the land, because of such limitations., the beach itself CAN be, either by a sea landing, or by walking , betwixt the tides, from a neighbouring beach which does have public access.

Ownership of land bordering or surrounding a beach does not grant ownership of the beach itself (until now, anyway)

[Big Dave]

>>Also known as The NZ Christmas Tree, and it is called such because....???????<<

:-)

'Three weeks ago' was when....????

[Brian d marge]

Nope.

Back to the beach.

k
All people want to fit in , people tend to organise themselves based on their social conditioning, The argument was that people remain poor , not due to wealth or surroundings but on the social bonds with other people . So goes the case for the poverty cycle.

look at posted video , tell me you don't see that you men desperately trying to fit in ,,, TO their perceived social norms . Not yours not mine.... but theirs ,

Maori reckoned they have been pooed upon for a few years now and were sick of feeling like a second class citizen , so did very well in the organisational game ,,, Organised themselves , and made it happen The results of which being the beach debate on now.

I dont have a problem with beach access , no worries there ....as was pointed out in earlier posts..., but I do have big issues with people being abused for using the beach , and here it comes back to the social conditioning as I pointed out before , and explain below

There a re a couple of common features with people trapped in a poverty cycle and they are .. Machismoism ( I m staunch , ring a bell ) , Authoritarianism , ( not asking for help and believing you way is the best way ) , lack of interest/ participation in local Government ,Apathy , ( what can I do about it ) and finally living for the Now and not the future ,,( buying the TV on a credit card , not saving for it ) , These were highlighted by Oscar lewis .. ( google 40 secs ) ..also education and of course money


Now think about that video and see if any of the above fit those fellas ... seems to me they have a fair few of the above ,,.

so people people organise themselves into groups , the groups exert a social conditioning , one group in our case , ( we will call them the Yahoos ) decided that they wanted to change , to exert more control , and organised themselves , The other group having been in a comfortable position for a fair old time , we will call this group the Houyhnhnms. are suddenly starting to feel threatened by the first group ( for example beaches.. , etc

snip ( cia world factbook on NZ )

Over the past 20 years the government has transformed New Zealand from an agrarian economy dependent on concessionary British market access to a more industrialized, free market economy that can compete globally. This dynamic growth has boosted real incomes - but left behind many at the bottom of the ladder - and broadened and deepened the technological capabilities of the industrial sector


Snip , from the five families book ( also online 1 min search )

( Oscar Lewis ) ...... argued that although the burdens of poverty were systemic and therefore imposed upon these members of society, they led to the formation of an autonomous subculture as children were socialized into behaviours and attitudes that perpetuated their inability to escape the underclass.

Back to Video and Beaches now .... A large group of Yahoos , left at the bottom of the social ladder forming a subculture, applying what they believe as their " Rights???" which may or may not be legitimate , and another group feeling a perception of threat . .......Beaches again

Can you see the link now ...........

So While the beaches maybe the symptom, The real disease is /was the social reforms and conditioning over the years ( especially in the eighties ) and the way some people have coped with it. (the poverty cycle)




Thats WTF it has to do with beaches ....


Stephen

[Owl]

But that is not in dispute. There are doubtless many beaches that cannot be accessed except over private property. In such cases it is obviously up to the owner of the land which must be crossed whether he is willing to grant permission or not.

But even when the beach cannot be accessed from the land, because of such limitations., the beach itself CAN be, either by a sea landing, or by walking , betwixt the tides, from a neighbouring beach which does have public access.

Ownership of land bordering or surrounding a beach does not grant ownership of the beach itself (until now, anyway)

You may want to check that Ixion?

Look up "Riparian Rights" or check details on the Queens Chain and boundaries pre-1990.

[jtzzr]

Hi guys , I`m Maori ,and I think a large percentage of all this hoo-haa is crap.

So you guys can have my share of the beach ,I hate the fuckin beach , I hate seafood and I hate the fact that all of us ca`nt go to the beach( any beach)And most of all I hate Racism in any form , I`ve seen both sides of it and nobody wins nor benefits. Rant Over

To be honest I`d rather be riding my bike past the fuckin thing. Are there any Maori owned roads I can ride on? ( tarsealed , with twisties?)