New bike time (almost)

[warewolf]

Not sure where you're looking for weights but the BMW 650X Challenge & the Suzuki 650SE are only 3Kg difference in dry weight, its not 10kg on dry weights for sure:
http://www.bmwmotorrad.co.nz/scripts...p?PageID=26977

http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Dual+Sport/DR650SE/

and the KTM690Enduro in at 5.5Kg lighter than the Beemer:
http://www.ktm.co.nz/bike.php?bike=110

Righto... KTM never quote dry weights as mistakenly presumed, but rather ready-to-race with 1L in the fuel tank. So if you do the maths, it looks like this:

Bike, Fuel(L), Dry, Half-dry, Wet
BMW: 9.5, 144, 150, 156
Suze: 12, 147, 153, 161
KTM: 12, 132.5, 138.5, 146.5
(Numbers quoted, calculated or inferred, fuel 1L = 0.735kg.)

So the KTM is 11kg lighter than the BMW... something like that anyway.

[.chris]

Not sure where you're looking for weights but the BMW 650X Challenge & the Suzuki 650SE are only 3Kg difference in dry weight, its not 10kg on dry weights for sure:
http://www.bmwmotorrad.co.nz/scripts...p?PageID=26977

http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/Dual+Sport/DR650SE/

and the KTM690Enduro in at 5.5Kg lighter than the Beemer:
http://www.ktm.co.nz/bike.php?bike=110

Hope that helps mate. The Suzuki is certainly down in the lighter range and waaay lighter than the KLR!!!

On the heavier side of things the BMW650Dakar is almost same weight, 2.2kg difference, as a KLR:
http://www.kawasaki.co.nz/kawasaki_c...0E9FA&do=specs

I think it was wet weights, which DR650 with full load of fuel was almost 10kg heavier than the BMW, but I might be mistaken.

The KLR is way too big, as with the 650dakar, I would be more inclined to step back to a 530exc/450exc/TE510/TE450/TE310 than up to a larger bike.

But if I am going for a trial bike to use as a dualsporter. What about one of these?

12l tank, 77° V twin four stroke, and as sexy as sunshine. 450/550cc options

[Transalper]

...
DRZ650/DRZ400
After having a look a couple I don't think I can , about 10kg heavier than the other 650's and power not listed anywhere.....

The specs for the DR650 including power/torque are listed here up to 2004.
Quote...
DR 650 SE 2004
Overall Length: 2 255 mm (88.8 in)
Overall Width: 865 mm (34.1 in)
Adjustable seat height - seat height can be lowered 40 mm (1.6 in) with suspension modifications performed by a dealer.
Dry weight: 147 kg (324 lbs)
Engine type: Air and oil-cooled 644 cc SOHC 1-cylinder, 4 valves. 43 hp (32 kW)/ 6.400 rpm, 54 Nm/ 4.600 rpm.

To me the DR650 is no trail bike but it is a decent adventurer on which I enjoy long haul adventures and up to 1000km day sealed road runs (seat mod, windscreen and 19 litre tank added).
The Husqvarna looks like a nice road going trail bike. Turns my eye.
Tank range is a big thing to me when thinking about dual sporting, one thing that would need attention with most the options here.
Best of luck with your choice.

[Paladin]

Righto... KTM never quote dry weights as mistakenly presumed, but rather ready-to-race with 1L in the fuel tank. So if you do the maths, it looks like this:

Bike, Fuel(L), Dry, Half-dry, Wet
BMW: 9.5, 144, 150, 156
Suze: 12, 147, 153, 161
KTM: 12, 132.5, 138.5, 146.5
(Numbers quoted, calculated or inferred, fuel 1L = 0.735kg.)

So the KTM is 11kg lighter than the BMW... something like that anyway.

Cheers for some extra clarification Colin!

So a used KTM 640 Adventure LC4 ticks damn near all the boxes for me: Lightish, 25L fuel tank, plenty of power, plenty of suspension travel, based on pedigree of Rally model etc etc, with maybe only the big negative being the price tag.

So three questions for Warewolf or other owners:
1. How bad is the infamous KTM vibration on a 640 Adventure?
2. What's the seat comfort level like for long road rides?
3. Are there any known issues with any particualar years of this model one should look out for if buying second hand?

[Padmei]

1. Vibration is enough to loosen your bowels

[thommo77]

Dave - check this one out. Damn tidy and has been well looked after by the look of it. $7K looks pretty decent too?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-198051634.htm

[Padmei]

Dave - check this one out. Damn tidy and has been well looked after by the look of it. $7K looks pretty decent too?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-198051634.htm

hell why buy a new bike? $7k

[warewolf]

So a used KTM 640 Adventure LC4 ticks damn near all the boxes for me: Lightish, 25L fuel tank, plenty of power, plenty of suspension travel, based on pedigree of Rally model etc etc, with maybe only the big negative being the price tag.

So three questions for Warewolf or other owners:
1. How bad is the infamous KTM vibration on a 640 Adventure?
2. What's the seat comfort level like for long road rides?
3. Are there any known issues with any particualar years of this model one should look out for if buying second hand?

As to price, you get what you pay for. Mine is basically standard. Heated grips is about it. Lights, tank, fairing, bash plate, hand guards, rear rack, hi-po engine, wide steel footpegs, comfort seat, alloy fat bars, decent suspension, decent brakes all standard. Plus it was designed to all work together.

1. Vibration is completely and utterly subjective. I don't mind the 640 at all. Some people can't stand it. Inline jap 4s are buzzy and horrible to me. "Smooth" bmw boxers are lumpy, rattly and horrible to me. Some examples are worse than others. I've heard reports of blurry vision and chattering teeth, sounds extreme but none I've ridden are anyhing at all like that. I did ride a 400MXC that was just like that at 110km/h in top, smoothed out again by 130 though. There are various things you can do to reduce the vibes if it bothers you just a little, being jetted correctly is one of them. Mine's not been touched, and I can't even be bothered reinstalling the rubber footpeg tops for long road rides anymore.

2. Seat is fine. I've done 3x Rusty Nuts Grand Challenges (1000km in 24 hours) of which the first I used a sheepy, the latter two nada. I've ridden between AKL & NSN several times. I get there pretty knacked because I've taken every possible gravel road that vagely gets me in my intended direction. OK, so I did take some "long cuts", my bad.

3. About the only issue of concern is that pre-2003 the output shaft bearing behind the clutch was a ball bearing. That was prone to failure, so a warranty upgrade to a roller bearing was offered, retrofittable to all years. 2003-on it was standard. Costs around $100 if you install it yourself. Also 2003-on have the high-flow head. Lots more info on the bike in the advrider.com KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread.

The bike does not like motorways, that's when you'll notice it is a thumper. You'll be bored shitless (that bowel thing again! ), and the vibes will get to you because you'll be sitting still and not concentrating on much else. Stick to the back roads if at all possible. Sure it would be nice to have a really comfortable bike for the occasional motorway sections, but then you'd have to put up with it being a pig on all the gnarly fun stuff.

As is, fully optioned up, it is basically the same weight as an unimproved DR650. Less if you remove the second front disc & calliper. Plus it makes 25% more power. With all the Euro 2 emissions gear on them standard they are tamer than you might expect, but some basic tuning mods will really wake them up apparently.

Also consider an LC4 Enduro with 18L tank and comfort seat. Damn near the same bike - main difference being the fairing & lights - for less money, and many more of them around. Slightly lower seat than the tall Adventure, too.

[Paladin]

1. Vibration is enough to loosen your bowels

You wouldn't be biased as a KLR owner would you?!

Dave - check this one out. Damn tidy and has been well looked after by the look of it. $7K looks pretty decent too?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-198051634.htm

Yeah looks like an interesting option as per Colin's comment too, but as I am in no hurry will keep an eye out for an Adventure model too as it is not an imminent purchase! Thx for pointing it out mate!

As to price, you get what you pay for. Mine is basically standard. Heated grips is about it. Lights, tank, fairing, bash plate, hand guards, rear rack, hi-po engine, wide steel footpegs, comfort seat, alloy fat bars, decent suspension, decent brakes all standard. Plus it was designed to all work together.

1. Vibration is completely and utterly subjective. I don't mind the 640 at all. Some people can't stand it. Inline jap 4s are buzzy and horrible to me. "Smooth" bmw boxers are lumpy, rattly and horrible to me. Some examples are worse than others. I've heard reports of blurry vision and chattering teeth, sounds extreme but none I've ridden are anyhing at all like that. I did ride a 400MXC that was just like that at 110km/h in top, smoothed out again by 130 though. There are various things you can do to reduce the vibes if it bothers you just a little, being jetted correctly is one of them. Mine's not been touched, and I can't even be bothered reinstalling the rubber footpeg tops for long road rides anymore.

2. Seat is fine. I've done 3x Rusty Nuts Grand Challenges (1000km in 24 hours) of which the first I used a sheepy, the latter two nada. I've ridden between AKL & NSN several times. I get there pretty knacked because I've taken every possible gravel road that vagely gets me in my intended direction. OK, so I did take some "long cuts", my bad.

3. About the only issue of concern is that pre-2003 the output shaft bearing behind the clutch was a ball bearing. That was prone to failure, so a warranty upgrade to a roller bearing was offered, retrofittable to all years. 2003-on it was standard. Costs around $100 if you install it yourself. Also 2003-on have the high-flow head. Lots more info on the bike in the advrider.com KTM LC4 (640) Index Thread.

The bike does not like motorways, that's when you'll notice it is a thumper. You'll be bored shitless (that bowel thing again! ), and the vibes will get to you because you'll be sitting still and not concentrating on much else. Stick to the back roads if at all possible. Sure it would be nice to have a really comfortable bike for the occasional motorway sections, but then you'd have to put up with it being a pig on all the gnarly fun stuff.

As is, fully optioned up, it is basically the same weight as an unimproved DR650. Less if you remove the second front disc & calliper. Plus it makes 25% more power. With all the Euro 2 emissions gear on them standard they are tamer than you might expect, but some basic tuning mods will really wake them up apparently.

Also consider an LC4 Enduro with 18L tank and comfort seat. Damn near the same bike - main difference being the fairing & lights - for less money, and many more of them around. Slightly lower seat than the tall Adventure, too.

Thanks Colin, really appreciate the detailed reply!

[clint640]

But if I am going for a trial bike to use as a dualsporter. What about one of these?

12l tank, 77° V twin four stroke, and as sexy as sunshine. 450/550cc options

The Aprilia RXV's are sex on wheels indeed (have you heard one ), but they're a race bike & come with a maintenance schedule to match. How many km/year have you been doing on the KLX? Any more than about 3000 km/yr the RXV probably ain't the tool for you.

I've put near 20 000 km on my 640 in the last 12 months, doing that on an RXV would probably involve about $4K worth of oil changes & top end rebuilds.

I think you may have misread warewolf's weight numbers, 132.5 kg 1/2 dry is the new 690 Enduro not the 640 Adv, the 640 Adv is about 160kg 1/2 dry & the 640 Enduro is 149kg.

If you want to do trail rides the 640 Enduro is a better tool than the Adventure. The Adventures are a cool rig but it's not that often you need a 500km range in NZ & you might wait a while for a good one to come up as they are pretty rare.

Cheers
Clint

[pampa]

Righto... KTM never quote dry weights as mistakenly presumed, but rather ready-to-race with 1L in the fuel tank. So if you do the maths, it looks like this:

Bike, Fuel(L), Dry, Half-dry, Wet
BMW: 9.5, 144, 150, 156
Suze: 12, 147, 153, 161
KTM: 12, 132.5, 138.5, 146.5
(Numbers quoted, calculated or inferred, fuel 1L = 0.735kg.)

So the KTM is 11kg lighter than the BMW... something like that anyway.

One point to make in favour of BM is that thou is heavier it has better fuel consumption so if you weighted the bikes fuel fueled the difference is lesser but the range is similar (according what I read anyway).

Cheers,
Pampa

[.chris]

It appears the TE610 is out of the running since there are none being imported. And seemingly no-one wants to sell me one bad enough to get one bought in (but after import costs / NZ$ current low its probably going to price itself out of contention anyway).

The 690 Enduro is almost $4000 more than the XChallenge.

So looks like the XC is the top of the list, will go see my local dealer in the next few days.

Thanks everyone for your advise and suggestions.


And one want to buy a KLX250s?

[clint640]

Good luck mate! I'd also check out any dealers that have got 08 690's sitting around & make them a low offer, you might get one for not much more than an X-Ch. It's always worth asking the question & I reckon it's only a matter of time before KTM bring the pricing down closer to the beemer anyway.

Another thing to remember is to make a list of any accessories & go-fast bits you might want on the new bike & see what you can get a discount on, or thrown in, when you're doing the deal, you'll never get them cheaper.

Cheers
Clint

[.chris]

Good luck mate! I'd also check out any dealers that have got 08 690's sitting around & make them a low offer, you might get one for not much more than an X-Ch. It's always worth asking the question & I reckon it's only a matter of time before KTM bring the pricing down closer to the beemer anyway.

Another thing to remember is to make a list of any accessories & go-fast bits you might want on the new bike & see what you can get a discount on, or thrown in, when you're doing the deal, you'll never get them cheaper.

Cheers
Clint

There does not appear to be too many of the 690's around, but I shall take a stab at a price reduction at my local KTM dealer as they have one
, but will be surprised if they can reduce the price that much, even on the 08 ex demo. But worth a shot.

You are right about getting the accessories at bike purchase time, have to see what I need/want.

[.chris]

after a couple of weeks of thinking, and a bit of research on the internet/talking to dealers, I am starting to lean more towards the 690.
It is more expensive, but I am starting to see where that money is.

And I do love the idea of the EFI, a simple way to tune the torque to whatever feels just right.

Keihin EFI with EPT(Electronic Power Throttle) and Map select switch
􀃆“Soft”–reduced homologated peak performance for better driveability (Pos. 1)
􀃆“Advanced”–homologated performance with extremely direct responsiveness (Pos. 2)
􀃆“Standard”–homologated performance with balanced responsiveness (Pos. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9)
􀃆“Poor fuel quality”–homologated performance is reduced in accordance with the fuel quality (Pos. 0)

Also the slipper clutch on paper sounds like a good idea, and something I would like.

I do love the instrument panel on the 690, the mix of analog tacho and digital speedo/computer etc looks just right to me.


And of course there is the 690's recent performance in the Dakar, it shows a pretty good level of reliability for the LC4 engine.

Any 690 enduro riders want to chime in? Feed me some of the orange kool-aide?