Warning!

[Monty69]

we should get rid of all vehicle wholesalers?

I think one of their employees (mechanic) is on here, and by all accounts a nice guy... I wonder what his side of the story is? Not that I'd post it here in the kangaroo court though, if I were him.

I think having importers/wholesalers is fine, it gives us opportunity to get more vehicle than we could normally afford but they just need to back up the vehicles with quality service and support. And ive met the mechanic at M.I.D while taking in my mates zxr in several times, yes hes a very nice guy, who races a zxr himself and who seemed willing to help... unfortunately his boss must be tell him to do otherwise when we leave the shop.

[Starky307]

It is a parallel imported bike as it is not a bike imported for the New Zealand market by the New Zealand distributer, who as mentioned a few posts before has to carry all the overheads of spare parts etc.

A decent bike shop would check the bike over before ever putting it on the floor to sell, as mentioned before it would ruin their reputation.

I'm not taking sides in any way but if you tried to save some money by buying a cheaper import with a warranty from a shop like that who will probably not be supported by importer of the brands they sell then take your lemon and learn to fix it yourself or right a letter to fair go.

I have no sympathy for people who buy from back yard import companies or companies that sell products designed for another country.

[Max Preload]

It is a parallel imported bike as it is not a bike imported for the New Zealand market by the New Zealand distributer

Bullshit. Used motorvehicles have been imported long before the enactment of the Copyright (Removal of Prohibition on Parallel Importing) Amendment Act 1998 which allowed parallel importing.

[Starky307]

Bullshit. Used motorvehicles have been imported long before the enactment of the Copyright (Removal of Prohibition on Parallel Importing) Amendment Act 1998 which allowed parallel importing.

So I'm guessing you are a used car salesman by your reaction to the way I used the term parallel import.
The term was used to describe a vehicle that has been imported by someone other than the person owning the rights to bring new original vehicles into this country.

[Max Preload]

So I'm guessing you are a used car salesman by your reaction to the way I used the term parallel import.
The term was used to describe a vehicle that has been imported by someone other than the person owning the rights to bring new original vehicles into this country.

Bad guess - I'm not a salesman of any sort - I don't particularly like people, especially stupid ones.

Since we're playing the guessing game I'll have a guess of my own - your wife left you for an Arthur Daley clone, right?

[Conquiztador]

Importing of secondhand vehicles has always been going on. By no means a right for someone who has the dealership, as he (before the parallel importing fiasco) has (OK then had...) the right to bring in that particular make by having a exclusive agreement with the manufacturer. Second hand vehicles can be purchased from anywhere, and any make and model is available. Go to Bob Smith in London, buy his Trumphy and bring it in to NZ. Then sell it. Has nothing to do with any dealership.

Re the keeping of parts and selling them: With a common markup of 300% its is a lucrative industry (I know, I used to sell parts in packaging machine industry years ago). For a "licensed importer" to complain that he now needs to keep parts for all the parallel imported vehicles does not ring true, as he suddenly has a bigger market to flog the 300% + markup bits to.

And as any service department in any dealership needs to pay their own way (That is one of the jobs of a Service Department managers, to make sure his department does their part too, if not, he soon find him an ex manager...) to have someone turn up with a vehicle the department knows how to service and they have the parts or can easily get them, and be able to charge properly as they did not sell the thing, is a goldmine!

So sorry, I am not buying in to the "poor dealers" angle here.

[Starky307]

Bad guess - I'm not a salesman of any sort - I don't particularly like people, especially stupid ones.

Since we're playing the guessing game I'll have a guess of my own - your wife left you for an Arthur Daley clone, right?

Far from correct, but I did have to google Arthur Daley to find out who you were referring too.

Importing of secondhand vehicles has always been going on. By no means a right for someone who has the dealership, as he (before the parallel importing fiasco) has (OK then had...) the right to bring in that particular make by having a exclusive agreement with the manufacturer. Second hand vehicles can be purchased from anywhere, and any make and model is available. Go to Bob Smith in London, buy his Trumphy and bring it in to NZ. Then sell it. Has nothing to do with any dealership.

Re the keeping of parts and selling them: With a common markup of 300% its is a lucrative industry (I know, I used to sell parts in packaging machine industry years ago). For a "licensed importer" to complain that he now needs to keep parts for all the parallel imported vehicles does not ring true, as he suddenly has a bigger market to flog the 300% + markup bits to.

And as any service department in any dealership needs to pay their own way (That is one of the jobs of a Service Department managers, to make sure his department does their part too, if not, he soon find him an ex manager...) to have someone turn up with a vehicle the department knows how to service and they have the parts or can easily get them, and be able to charge properly as they did not sell the thing, is a goldmine!

So sorry, I am not buying in to the "poor dealers" angle here.

I'm not playing the poor dealer story here at all.

My approach was more of a buyer be ware angle and I through in the bit about buying an imported motorcycle (not parallel imported I've been told). This is just as dodgy as a lot of the Japanese imported cars have turned out to be over the years.

My approach is if you know nothing about the item you are buying then by new from a New Zealand dealer.
If you know what you are doing then buy cheap and be prepared to work on it yourself.

The point is that the warranty has not been fulfilled in which case you need to go to court fighting or ring fair go.

[morayfm]

Conquiztador, I guess you and I are poles apart on what constitutes a fair and reasonable Ditributor. I have been a Distributor in New Zealand for over 20 years in a very tough industry. The biggest single factor I put our success down to is looking after our Dealers. This involves more than just holding spare parts and promoting our products and services. It also requires ethics and respect; I consider a 300% mark up on spare parts to be extremely unethical and my Dealers are not that dumb that they wouldn't know they were being ripped off. We put a fair mark-up on all of our products whether they are spare parts or new items - this can be anything from 5 - 40% mark up.

The point I was making in my first post was that many Parallel Importers cause a lot of damage to a lot of brands. Unfortunately it is usually good quality brands too as these are the ones that the local Distributor has spent many years and money on making them what they are. Of course you need to have a good product to start with but unless that product is invested in by way of people, promotion, support, logistics, demonstrations, testing, etc then it will not be supported by the End-User. All of that costs a lot of money and regardless of what you think of Distributors, it is not fair on them for some Back-yard Operator to come along and make no such investment but still be allowed to sell the products at reduced margins and offer no back up - remember that was the point of the original post in this thread. Unfortunately it does happen and much too often.

Just to get back to your comment on mark up for Spare Parts - in our warehouse we hold parts for products that are older than 25 years in a lot of cases. That is called supporting a brand and I can assure you that even if we put on the maximum of 40% mark-up, it goes nowhere near the cost of holding those spare parts. There is a lot more to being a Distributor than just having a right to sell a brand in this country. Unfortunately under the 1998 Law anybody can sell anything in New Zealand now and they don't have to take any resposibility for the brand. It is still up to the Distributor to protect that brand. I know of numerous cases of where good brands are now failing in New Zealand because the Distributor can no longer afford to represent them; that is bad news for the End-User.

[imdying]

It is a parallel imported bike as it is not a bike imported for the New Zealand market by the New Zealand distributer

No, that makes it a grey import. It would be parallel imported if it was new and a model sold by the local agents. It's neither.

[xwhatsit]

One more thing -- a ZXR250 these days is a 20 year old bike, which has probably been mercilessly raped every time it's been ridden. It may still be the fastest 4T 250 around, but you can't expect to buy one new and it have the reliability of a new Ninja 250R. A ZXR250 is almost eligible for post-classics, FFS.

[Starky307]

Conquiztador, I guess you and I are poles apart on what constitutes a fair and reasonable Ditributor. I have been a Distributor in New Zealand for over 20 years in a very tough industry. The biggest single factor I put our success down to is looking after our Dealers. This involves more than just holding spare parts and promoting our products and services. It also requires ethics and respect; I consider a 300% mark up on spare parts to be extremely unethical and my Dealers are not that dumb that they wouldn't know they were being ripped off. We put a fair mark-up on all of our products whether they are spare parts or new items - this can be anything from 5 - 40% mark up.

The point I was making in my first post was that many Parallel Importers cause a lot of damage to a lot of brands. Unfortunately it is usually good quality brands too as these are the ones that the local Distributor has spent many years and money on making them what they are. Of course you need to have a good product to start with but unless that product is invested in by way of people, promotion, support, logistics, demonstrations, testing, etc then it will not be supported by the End-User. All of that costs a lot of money and regardless of what you think of Distributors, it is not fair on them for some Back-yard Operator to come along and make no such investment but still be allowed to sell the products at reduced margins and offer no back up - remember that was the point of the original post in this thread. Unfortunately it does happen and much too often.

Just to get back to your comment on mark up for Spare Parts - in our warehouse we hold parts for products that are older than 25 years in a lot of cases. That is called supporting a brand and I can assure you that even if we put on the maximum of 40% mark-up, it goes nowhere near the cost of holding those spare parts. There is a lot more to being a Distributor than just having a right to sell a brand in this country. Unfortunately under the 1998 Law anybody can sell anything in New Zealand now and they don't have to take any resposibility for the brand. It is still up to the Distributor to protect that brand. I know of numerous cases of where good brands are now failing in New Zealand because the Distributor can no longer afford to represent them; that is bad news for the End-User.

Very well said.

I have no time for, nor do I ever feel sorry for people who buy from a shop that has imported a product themselves, even more so if it is second hand.

[imdying]

I have no time for, nor do I ever feel sorry for people who buy from a shop that has imported a product themselves, even more so if it is second hand.

Well, to be blunt, you're a muppet then...

Of course I could be wrong, and I would be willing to retract that comment, assuming you can tell me the name of an official importer of motorcycles into New Zealand, that can supply a new 250cc IL4 race replica, like the lad wants? Hmmm?

[Starky307]

Well, to be blunt, you're a muppet then...

Of course I could be wrong, and I would be willing to retract that comment, assuming you can tell me the name of an official importer of motorcycles into New Zealand, that can supply a new 250cc IL4 race replica, like the lad wants? Hmmm?

Why am I the muppet? I buy my bikes from reputable dealers and have no troubles with having them repaired if required.

Can you please show me where a new 250cc IL4 race replica bike came into all this?

If you want to call me a muppet than do it about the items I have mentioned and don't try to cloud the water with something off topic.

[imdying]

Why am I the muppet?

That would be the blanket statement that condemns the OPs actions that simply can't be carried out in any other way:

I have no time for, nor do I ever feel sorry for people who buy from a shop that has imported a product themselves, even more so if it is second hand.

ZXR250s are all imported, they were never sold new here, they're also all second hand, as they're not sold new in Japan anymore either.

I buy my bikes from reputable dealers and have no troubles with having them repaired if required.

Well good for you

Can you please show me where a new 250cc IL4 race replica bike came into all this?

That would be the original post, or did you not read all the thread?

My mate bought a zxr250

The 'new' part was your own addition:

I have no time for, nor do I ever feel sorry for people who buy from a shop that has imported a product themselves, even more so if it is second hand.

If you want to call me a muppet than do it about the items I have mentioned and don't try to cloud the water with something off topic.

Ahh, you're the one saying you've no sympathy for the OP, even though what you suggest is impossible for the model of bike he desires... unless of course you know where to buy a brand new ZXR250 from a Kawasaki dealer in NZ (lets be generous here, anywhere in the world will be fine).


You're still a muppet....

[Starky307]

You're still a muppet....

Nowhere does it state that the OP (I'm guessing you mean Original Poster) said his friend required a IL4 250cc replica race bike even if it is what he ended up with.

You have read something and taken it one way as I have also taken it another way.

As I see it
I saw someone who brought a bike that was imported and brought a warranty with it thinking he was covered if he ever had any problems.
It turns out he is now having problems and the shop has not been able to fix his issues so he now has a problem with them. That is why I recommended fixing it himself, going to court or ringing fair go about the issue he has.

I have never made any direct statement about the OP (I'm guessing you still mean Original Poster) but a blanket statement about anyone who buys from an import company who do not own the official rights to import/distribute. In reading that again I guess I have then made a statement about the OP but then I have also brought items before in this manor but live with it if it fails and I do not get the support I require.

I assume they are having problems fixing the bike under their "warranty" because as you have mentioned that model of bike was not designed for this market, hence you would struggle to find parts and service manuals which are all available to authorized dealers for models that were "officially" imported to this country.

Like all things on all forums this has been stretch out of shape. If you would like to continue to debate the ins and outs of the statements made than do so without the name calling, it makes you appear to be less of a debater than I'm guessing you are.