Who would be at fault?

[ital916]

Hey all,

Just a quick question regarding pedestrian crossing.

I was riding home from work the other day, nice straight road with a pedestrian crossing half way down. I see that a mother and her child are crossing so all the traffic slows down before getting there, they cross and are well clear so traffic speeds up.

About three metres before I go over the crossing this lady who was jogging downa side path came belting out, and ran straight across the crossing without checking. The anchors go on *ashamedly even though the front was hard on I managed to lock the rear...more braking practice needed* and I come to a stop a little bit past the pedestrian crossing, luckily she stopped half way across * a momentary gain of sanity*, she gave me a sorry nod and continued jogging.

SO if a pedestrian runs across and the vehicle has no chance to stop in time, who is at fault. Motorvehicle or pedestrian. Key phrase being the pedestrian has not given a vehicle that is too close time to stop, though pedetrians always have right of way.

[nallac]

the pedestrian would be at fault as not allowing the driver/rider enough time
to stop.

[Blossom]

My understanding also.
At school the children are all taught to look both ways and check there are no vehicles about to pass by before they use the pedestrian crossing. Seems to be common law really, but I have no actual laws to back that up.

[Duke girl]

At all pedestrian crossing there is a white diamond painted on the road just before the crossing. If a person is standing at the crossing waiting to cross and the driver or rider hasn't reach that painted diamond on the road then the pedestrain has right of way to cross. If it was the other way around and the rider or driver has already gone pass the diamond then the pedestrain has to wait for them to go pass before stepping out onto the crossing. Grab a road code and check in there to see if i am right.
Anyone running onto the road without looking is not only a danger to themselves but also to those of us who use it to ride or drive on. Isnt there a saying that saids look to your right, look to your left then look to your right again before crossing.

[TOTO]

At all pedestrian crossing there is a white diamond painted on the road just before the crossing. If a person is standing at the crossing waiting to cross and the driver or rider hasn't reach that painted diamond on the road then the pedestrain has right of way to cross. If it was the other way around and the rider or driver has already gone pass the diamond then the pedestrain has to wait for them to go pass before stepping out onto the crossing. Grab a road code and check in there to see if i am right.
Anyone running onto the road without looking is not only a danger to themselves but also to those of us who use it to ride or drive on. Isnt there a saying that saids look to your right, look to your left then look to your right again before crossing.

Oh cool , I never knew that ...cheers for that

[PrincessBandit]

Legally and "in practice" are often two different things. but it's probably a good idea to treat any pedestrian in the vicinity of a pedestrian crossing with caution. She was extremely rude to just run out like that but I'm picking you would have been more alert if she had been a child. Children are highly unpredictable therefore you would have been ready for an unexpected dash out onto the road; perhaps adults need to be treated like children!
From a legal standpoint though my suspicions are that you would still be held at fault since it was on a marked crossing. But I could be wrong, must look to see if there is anything in the road code about it. Otherwise googling might yeild the answer.

[Fatt Max]

Legally and "in practice" are often two different things. but it's probably a good idea to treat any pedestrian in the vicinity of a pedestrian crossing with caution. She was extremely rude to just run out like that but I'm picking you would have been more alert if she had been a child. Children are highly unpredictable therefore you would have been ready for an unexpected dash out onto the road; perhaps adults need to be treated like children!
From a legal standpoint though my suspicions are that you would still be held at fault since it was on a marked crossing. But I could be wrong, must look to see if there is anything in the road code about it. Otherwise googling might yeild the answer.

PB is right as far as I know, mate had a similar incient in his cage a few years back and wound up with a fine for careless driving.

The "rule of thumb" as explained by the cops at the time is that the road belongs to vehicles, but the crossings and space 10m - 15m either side of it belong to pedestrians.

I must say, that does sound a bit crap but there you go. Unfortunatley there can be very little movement when human behaviour comes into it.

Still, I always keep my eyes out approaching crossings, especially early mornings when the running / power walking brigade are out.

[BMWST?]

PB is right as far as I know, mate had a similar incient in his cage a few years back and wound up with a fine for careless driving.

The "rule of thumb" as explained by the cops at the time is that the road belongs to vehicles, but the crossings and space 10m - 15m either side of it belong to pedestrians.

I must say, that does sound a bit crap but there you go. Unfortunatley there can be very little movement when human behaviour comes into it.

Still, I always keep my eyes out approaching crossings, especially early mornings when the running / power walking brigade are out.

the space INSIDE the diamonds belongs to pedestrians...but i always treat any pedestrians in the vicinity of crossings with caution.The worst ones are crossings where there are plants fences etc close to crossings which may hide approaching pedestrians.I think that judges would err on the side of pedestrians,but they need to be aware that vehicles cant stop on a sixpence.Wellington pedestrians are suicidal

[martybabe]

It's a dodgy area innit, In Britain the driver would almost certainly be seen as at fault although we all know in reality the jogger is at fault, however Pedestrian crossings are protected by a marked zig zag area in which you are not allowed to park, punishable by death. One of the few good ideas to come from there, it allows a damn good view for pedestrian and driver.

Two things I've noticed about NZ crossings, a lot of them have approaches which are almost totally obscured from the drivers view point, there are 2 in Inglewood and there is a near miss every single day! Secondly; those people that approach crossings as if about to cross then lean against the crossing marker and have a nice chat or start texting or pie eating whilst half a dozen bewildered drivers slow down,speed up,lurch to a halt, all trying to second guess the the intention of the crossing lurker.

[ManDownUnder]

I understand the rider/driver is at fault because you need to be able to stop the vehicle in time to avoid an accident at all times. Remember a while back that ambo that was done for hittnig someone while on the way to a callout. Lights and sirens going and someone ran out in front of it - and the ambo got done?

We all have a "duty of care" under the law too to some responsibility could be placed on the pedestrian but that doesn't seem to have been exercised in the various events I know of

[Badjelly]

As I understand it, vehicles are required to give way to pedestrians on a crossing (or on their half of of the crossing if there is a central divider).

A law change is being considered to require vehicles to give way to pedestrians "obviously waiting to cross". (I think those are the words.)

So a driver who fails to give way to someone who runs onto a crossing without warning has not committed a traffic offence under the present law, or the proposed one.

However when it comes to questions of legal liability and "whose fault it is" I think it comes down to whether people have exercised due care. In the case you describe, it seems to me that the driver did exercise due care and the runner did not.

[Badjelly]

...those people that approach crossings as if about to cross then lean against the crossing marker and have a nice chat or start texting or pie eating whilst half a dozen bewildered drivers slow down,speed up,lurch to a halt, all trying to second guess the the intention of the crossing lurker.

Tell me about it.

[bsasuper]

If the jogger keeps doing this, sooner or later a big truck wont stop, pedestrions still have to use care when crossing.

[MsKABC]

Two things I've noticed about NZ crossings, a lot of them have approaches which are almost totally obscured from the drivers view point

Or else they put them in ridiculous places like right next to a roundabout. There is one like this in Pakuranga, totally takes you by surprise as you've just finished negotiating the roundabout safely, speeding up and then bang!

[bull]

If the jogger keeps doing this, sooner or later a big truck wont stop, pedestrions still have to use care when crossing.

Yep - being right but dead is still a FAIL.

Whats the deal with people cycling across the pedestrian crossings? are thy in the right or do they need to dismount and walk across?