So, a rozza enters my home...

[tri boy]

"Hello, is this Five Cross Roads Cake Kichen"?
"Great. I'd like to place an order for a mega caterer's pack of assorted doughnuts".
"Yep, they're to shout the h/way patrol".
"No, I don't expect more than 6-8 officers will be attending"
"Whats that"?

"55 bakers doz should do it"?
"Budget on super coating of icing sugar, and cream"?

"No worries. Please charge it to Mr Scumdogs personal account".
"He will not mind".

[Ixion]

The OP was 200 meters from the checkpoint , and the police entry maybe 10 minutes later.

If that cop took 10 minutes to cover 200 metres, there is something seriously wrong - he needs to lay off the donuts.... NOW!!!!

You argue that the police , because I have committed the heinous sin of driving into my own driveway and entering my own home, are entitled to force their way in .

If they believe you may have been drinking and driving, then yes...

So I would like to know at what point in time and distance my ancient rights cease to exist.

"In fresh pursuit" means you are just behind them. Covering 200 metres from just up the road to get to the car in the drive very soon after would be "fresh" enough...

The first the rozza would have seen of OP was ehen he saw the oncoming car turn into the drive. SO he would have to start his car, put on his seat belt, pull out, drive 200 meters, pull into the driveway, stop, undo his seatbelt, secure the car, walk through into the house, find the OP. Five to ten minutes seems reasonable. It's not just the time to drive 200 meters

As I read it the rozza was never behind the OP. The OP was heading toward the checkpoint , whence one assumes the rozza came from. The cop would not have started up until the car turned into the driveway. So by the time the cop was actually on the road (heading TOWARD Mr TB , not behind him), Mr TB would have been stopped and parked up.

And why would the cop have any reasonable grounds to believe Mr TB had been drinking and driving? That is the nub of the matter. No one would object to a cop following someone when there was reason to suspect he was pissed. Indeed the ancient principle of hot pursuit covers that.

But Mr TB did nothing but drive into his driveway. As I did tonight. As I imagine you will when you return home at the end of your shift. Would the fact the you drove into your driveway justify me lodging a complaint about a police officer driving under the influence? "Yes, IPCA bod, I do indeed have reasonable grounds to believe that the officer was drink drinving. I know for a fact that he drove into his driveway. What more evidence do you require ?". Would you admit to it, on the basis of that evidence?

There was no pursuit. There was no grounds for any presumption that Mr TB had been drinking .

[Max Preload]

There was no pursuit. There was no grounds for any presumption that Mr TB had been drinking.

And he was never signaled to stop by any enforcement officer whilst actually on the road. 30 seconds or 30 hours later - there was never grounds for entry, nor good cause to suspect he had been drinking.

[Forest]

This is no light matter. For 1000 years the law has respected the sancity of the law abiding citizen's home. The king himself , cannot willy-nilly pass the street door of the meanest subject. That is why the police must obtain search warrants. The OP had committed no crime, nor given any grounds for presuming he had. Yet, his home was forcibly entered , and he was interrogated against his will

You are wrong in fact, and wrong in law.

A large number of state agencies, and their agents, can enter private property without a warrant.

[ManDownUnder]

You are wrong in fact, and wrong in law.

A large number of state agencies, and their agents, can enter private property without a warrant.

True ... assuming they have just cause... and I believe that's where the heart of the matter lies...

[jrandom]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin, 1775

[scumdog]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin, 1775

Who defines 'essential'??

[jrandom]

Who defines 'essential'??

Whoever's giving it up, I suppose.

But the status quo should never be accepted as a baseline to be built upon with further deprivations of liberty. Sometimes, liberties previously taken away need to be restored.

A healthy society's laws should oscillate with the times, not proceed in a steady march toward totalitarianism. Even though totalitarianism makes the policeman's job enormously easier.

[Max Preload]

Laws should oscillate with the times, not proceed in a steady march toward totalitarianism. Even though totalitarianism makes the policeman's job enormously easier.

Especially if said Policeman is only really interested in fitting up someone he just doesn't like, because, oh I don't know... maybe just doesn't pass the 'attitude test' we hear so much about.

[tri boy]

Not into my house this time
But set up in exactly the same place as last Thursday. There is a earth works contractors drive where they stash the bus for the baddies, and where the doughnut van can park out of site.

Now the interesting bit.
Te Kowhai Rd, although becoming more popular due to urban spread has very little in the way of road accidents. MHO.
Occasionally a car will screw up a corner, and go through a farm fence, but it is rare to hear, or see ambulance, fire, or paddy wagon screaming up it. There is an old folks home further up, and ambulances cruise up there to drop off, or pick up, but it certainly isn't a high crash site. MHO

So, are they there for a fishing expedition, or is it just convenient to their base?
Or, does an increase of residential houses mean a "target rich" enviroment?
8 coppas, two patrol cars for 1 1/2 hours, and I havn't seen a car pulled over into the booze bus area yet. Cushy shift if you can get on it

An interesting aside also, when the complaints authority dude called me the other day, one of his Q's was. "Do you feel that your area is being targeted"?
No shit. Thats what he asked.

[peasea]

Especially if said Policeman is only really interested in fitting up someone he just doesn't like, because, oh I don't know... maybe just doesn't pass the 'attitude test' we hear so much about.

They do it all the time, it's called abuse of power and the greater the power the more dangerous the abuse. They DO fit people up that they don't like or have their suspicions about, they DO lie in court and they DO cover their tracks, often aided and abetted by the likes of the PCA or whatever, their own white-washing machines ffs!

No, they're not ALL scumbags but the scumbags sure don't do their workmates any favours. You can't pick them generally, so trust none.

[peasea]

Not into my house this time
But set up in exactly the same place as last Thursday. There is a earth works contractors drive where they stash the bus for the baddies, and where the doughnut van can park out of site.

Now the interesting bit.
Te Kowhai Rd, although becoming more popular due to urban spread has very little in the way of road accidents. MHO.
Occasionally a car will screw up a corner, and go through a farm fence, but it is rare to hear, or see ambulance, fire, or paddy wagon screaming up it. There is an old folks home further up, and ambulances cruise up there to drop off, or pick up, but it certainly isn't a high crash site. MHO

So, are they there for a fishing expedition, or is it just convenient to their base?
Or, does an increase of residential houses mean a "target rich" enviroment?
8 coppas, two patrol cars for 1 1/2 hours, and I havn't seen a car pulled over into the booze bus area yet. Cushy shift if you can get on it

An interesting aside also, when the complaints authority dude called me the other day, one of his Q's was. "Do you feel that your area is being targeted"?
No shit. Thats what he asked.

Could be a training exercise for newbies. I'd ride up and down the road all day just to give them something to do. (In your gruns.) Go and photograph them, excessively, from all angles and close up.

[tri boy]

It started pissing down with rain not long ago, so they scarpered away.
They sure can pack up quick if it means getting wet. Fasted they moved all through the RBT session.
(I thought humans were water proof)?

[Winston001]

Yeah, I know now that I misread the situation. bad day, demanding customers, then a rozza in my face firing Q's and statements at me).

i guess the site of coppa's approaching at more than a leisurely pace while I'm at such a pace sort of sets me off.
Damn, I'm starting to feel quilty about making his working shift a bit more awkward. Lesson (sorta) learnt. Next time I'll set Rosa on them, that will give me at least a minute to staighten my thought/opinion process, while they wipe dog slobber off themselves.

Good on ya for being honest about this with hindsight. The law has been comprehensively explained already. The officer had the lawful authority to enter your property.

What seemed to annoy you was the demanding attitude of the policeman. I do wonder about that myself at times. Young officers are taught to be strong, assertive, and to hold control. They need those skills learned at Police College to get them through the first year or two because its a tough job - they have to mainly deal with some right pricks.

Once an officer becomes experienced, he relaxes and is able to read the situation so aggression is only adopted when necessary. Sounds like you had a nervous newbie who wanted to stand up to you.

[Ixion]

Good on ya for being honest about this with hindsight. The law has been comprehensively explained already. The officer had the lawful authority to enter your property.

...

In another thread, objections are raised to the proposals to give the police wider authority to demand DNA samples. Much of the objection arises from the suspicion that such authroity, once granted will firstly be used as a lever to demand yet more incursions upon our ancient rights and freedoms. And secondly from the suspicion that the new powers will promptly be abused by the police

This thread (and indeed your post) is the PERFECT illustration of how well justifed those suspicions are.