Point ignition wiring help

[Skunk]

I need help. Points system on the bike and I know fark all about those. All I need is a spark at the plug - don't need anything else.

Google search said: "sorry - before my time" or some such.
I don't know what in the system works and what doesn't... so I figure the best way to start is wire it up correctly.

I'm guessing it's 6 volt (due to it's age - 1972-74ish) and I seem to have guessed right about the black being Earth as when it's kicked over all the others (except Green) produce 3ish volts. The Green is the neutral switch.

Here's what I have coming out of the flywheel:

[Motu]

Is this on a Spragthorpe?

[hmmmnz]

if you get stuck, i could come round and take a looksy for ya,
what bike is it??

[craisin]

google kettering system sounds like a yamaha=black earth Its simple a wire from the + red side of the battery goes to the ignition switch and then on to the + side of the coil. The -- negetive side of the coil has a wire that goes to the points. pretty simple to me. If you want to use a bigger car coil it would pay to use a little heavier copper wires save oxerworking the originals

[craisin]

google TAC or transistor assisted contacts too

[ajturbo]

use a bigger hammer.. that may help?

[Skunk]

Is this on a Spragthorpe?

Kawasaki F6

google kettering system sounds like a yamaha=black earth Its simple a wire from the + red side of the battery goes to the ignition switch and then on to the + side of the coil. The -- negetive side of the coil has a wire that goes to the points. pretty simple to me. If you want to use a bigger car coil it would pay to use a little heavier copper wires save oxerworking the originals

No battery. I have been told it can work without one (which is what I would like).

google TAC or transistor assisted contacts too

Will do.

[Ixion]

You sure you got cb points in there ? Looks like a standard TAC flytwheel magneto to me. Which is a whole different ball game to a Kettering system. Car coils won't work (probably) for a start.

In theory this (attachment) is what an F6 Kawa should have

[Skunk]

You sure you got cb points in there ? Looks like a standard TAC flytwheel magneto to me. Which is a whole different ball game to a Kettering system. Car coils won't work (probably) for a start.

In theory this (attachment) is what an F6 Kawa should have

That's wot I got! TAC. Thanks Ixion

Now, how do I wire it up? Do I need a battery (prefer not), which wire does what?

I see that '5' is the ignition coil so that's a clue to clueless me I guess.

[Ixion]

Nope. No battery needed. It's a magneto.

Basically , the magneto (the bit behind that big circular lump in the picture) holds several coils. Two big fellows (usually two) for lighting, you can rip those out if you want to , might save 0.001 hp. And a small coil called the primary coil, which generates electricity to power the main coil (the one mounted on the frame somewhere). Instead of a battery powering the coil And a little tiny coil, probably just looks like a little box, that is the trigger to say the piston's in the right place.

The lighting coils would originally have gone to the rectifier/regulator, but you can ignore them

The other two are the important ones

Depending on your electrics design (and unfortunately, unlike Kettering it's NOT standard), the one from the trigger will go to a little box (may only be about the size of a matchbox, the TAC unit, somewhere on the frame. The other important wire, from the primary coil will go (maybe indirectly via a kill switch or something) to EITHER the TAC unit, or direct to the main coil. Try looking around for matching colour wires on either of those.

Also find the main coil and see where the wires on it go to.

[Skunk]

Looks like I'm missing the TAC unit. That'll be why my 'logic' failed.

Thanks Ixion; great help to sorting this. I'm installing this engine in a different bike and only have the engine and the wires you see in the photo. I'll start hunting for the 'other' bits now.

[Ixion]

Nope. Belay that. I just looked at that diagram.I was wrong. It's not TAC. Not if that's the right diagram It's for a 71 model and DOES show cb points.

So the circuit is real simple.

Wire from the primary coil to one side of the coil. Other side of the coil is either earthed, and the other side of the primary coil goes to the CB points. Or the other side of the primary coil is earthed and the other side of the main coil goes to the points. No TAC needed. But around that period a lot of bikes changed from plain cb points to TAC.

It would probably help if you could get the flywheel off, then you could follow the wires, but that would need a suitable extractor.

[Skunk]

I have a suitable extractor. I was starting to doubt you too as I couldn't see a TAC in the bits of diagram I found (at the website the diagram you posted came from).

I will follow the wires to find the one/s I need. So it'll be wired like either the green or red below.

[Ixion]

Uh, not sure about your drawing

It'll be either classic Kettering:

Wire from primary coil (which replaces battery) to one side of coil (maybe through a switch). Other side of coil to points. Other side of primary coil earthed.

Or: The alternate sometimes used on magneto setups, cos it only needs a single wire

One side of primary to contacts. Other side to coil, and other side of coil earthed.

Either setup, the primary coil, the main coil and the points are all in series. The primary coil outputs a generated current to the main coil, through the points. When the points open the magnetic field collapses, inducing a HT pulse (the spark).

Check the primary coil . One side of it should certainly be coming out from the magneto. The other side may be earthed (1) above. Or go to the points, within the magneto (2) above. Or come out of the magneto, which would originally have been to an ignition switch/kill switch , and is effectively (1)

[craisin]

well a mate up north had a boat with a small Johnson outboard and it didnt spark no battery. And he didnt have $30 for a second hand coil so we took the existing wires off the points and wired up a car coil up to the points and a car battery that we put in the bottom of the boathe said if it went for 6 months he would be happy. 2 years later it still went at the end of the day some of us have done things in our lives. My experience with total loss systems come from the fact I built a C grade saloon car and the alternator was merely a fan belt tensioner. Get a black dog up you