Bike vs bike crashes - why so many?

[pritch]

So are you a steerer or a braker?

On the two most recent occasions, both at the same time.
How does that affect the theory?
(Other than that steering with the front brake on makes you turn faster )

[Motu]

On a few occasions I have found myself just to the left of the centre line, setting up for a left hander. And found another bike coming round the corner, also hard on the centre line , as he apexes his right hander. In each case, I jinked left he loosened his line (given that his course was taking him back to his side anyway) and all was well.

Actually I'm even wondering if this could be one of the very very rare situations where the old canard about "laying it down" might be valid. If there is nowhere else to go, do you have a better chance sliding than head on ?

The only times I've meet another bike coming the other way in my lane is on left handers - last year,in one day,on the same corner (SH22),TWICE!

I think the ''laying it down'' is possibly appropriate - your bike between theirs and you,and taking their bike out from under them.

Reinforces my desire to ride roads squids and cruiser riders stay away from.I can handle stray stock,farmers utes and tractors....

[ducatilover]

The only times I've meet another bike coming the other way in my lane is on left handers - last year,in one day,on the same corner (SH22),TWICE!

I think the ''laying it down'' is possibly appropriate - your bike between theirs and you,and taking their bike out from under them.

hope full you are in the left hander tight enough not to get hit by a twat.

i personally never put my head over the centre line in right handers either.

[Mikkel]

scary as fuck, and totaly un-naturual.

Which is also why you aren't likely to pull it off. When you get shocked you're most likely to react in a natural manner. Now, I doubt any amount of off-the-bike mental priming is going to make you choose the un-natural option in the situation where you don't actually have any time to analyse the situation.

The most likely response to a motorcycle approaching you at speed, in your lane, around a corner is going to be "Oh shi..."

All of this idle speculation, while interesting enough, is extremely hypothetical. As has been pointed out you can not predict the reactions of the oncoming rider and you have absolultely no control over, and only very limited information about, your environment in these situations. Consequently your reactions to the situation have to match the very real scenario you are in at that given moment, not a studied imaginative scenario you have spent hours and hours priming yourself for.

Whatever happens, happens - it's how we deal with it that matters. ...and death is the only certainty.

[gammaguy]

or summer weather has brought all the "born-again bikers" out to play, and their skills are rusty.

someone should tell them-you can be born again,but only dead once.

they are alarmingly over represented in statistics as far as i can tell

[ducatilover]

Whatever happens, happens - it's how we deal with it that matters. ...and death is the only certainty.

i agree completely

[Quasievil]

Of course there are many theories on what to do and how to react and many of them will be entertained by many of you, but if I suggest you say simply SLOW DOWN and do the speed limit, that would be something most of you wont entertain, and consequensely the predicatable results will follow where we read about many other tragic events.

[carbonhed]

On the two most recent occasions, both at the same time.
How does that affect the theory?
(Other than that steering with the front brake on makes you turn faster )

I've always found that if you're braking as you lean it tends to try to stand you back up...

Maybe that's the universal answer!

Massive amounts of front brake followed by catstrophic highside and you'll be able to wave to the squid/cruiser as they pass harmlessly below you.

This avoidance technique is now copyrighted and fees are payable on a per use basis.

[scumdog]

Bikers are not the paragons of virtue they often claim to be. Many ride way beyond their competence, the limits of their machinery, the bounds of decency, in excess of the dictates of the prevailing road and weather conditions, and ultra vires to the Laws of Physics.

The fact that more aren't maimed or killed during the "riding season" is, I suspect, a statistical anomaly.

Mr H. is right.

That the motorcycle death toll is not higher is a constant source of amazement to me...............

[Subike]

Yesterday I went for a little putter around my block,
Greta valley, Waikari, Waiau, leader road to Parnassas, Cheviot, Gretta valley
Hot day, nice roads, good conditions for a putter,
Sure I over took heaps of cars, 4X4 with boats , camper vans the usual week end tourists.
I think the highest speed I got too was 130kpn, during an over taking move.
But.
I was overtaken by at least 6 bikes ( No Harleys lol ), all of who, if caught by the law would have been walking! It was a beautifull day to enjoy the country side!!
Not pass it by on fast forward!
I travel SH1 often, love sitting on 110kph, and get passed mainly by sprot bikes!
I personally dont see the sence in it myself,
I like going fast, but on a public road? on a busy traffic day!! STUPID!
Yes I have encountered bikes cutting crns,.... too often.
I just slow down and mutter, fuckin idiot!

[AD345]

Interesting thread.

As a bona-fide sterotypical Born Again Biker I live (for now) in a state of constant amazement at my incredible good fortune at being able to complete rides without killing or being killed. Add in the fact that I am enjoying myself and it all starts to look a little obscene...


Wandering back on topic - the OP makes a reasonable point but I don't know how applicable it will be out on the road. Trying something is better than nothing though.

I will admit to surprise at this topic (preparing for the bike on the other side of the road) seeming to be a new one for discussion. Thrashing up and down the countryside on my sprotsbike back in the day it quickly became apparent that if other riders were doing what I was doing - we're both fucked. So I adjusted my style accordingly. Perhaps I was fortunate that i was granted the time to make the mistakes and then learn from them - not all are so blessed.

What can I do as an individual to reduce the risk of being involved in a scenario like this?

Work hard on not being the guilty party.
Doable

Attach a viciously sharp javelin to the front of my cruiser in order to sweep offenders into oblivion and out of the genepool.
There's a law against it (bound to be - but I must check).

Do the visualisation thing.
It's a faint hope but a hope nonetheless.

Thats pretty much it.

Ruled out was:
Not riding

[Dean]

Yea i think many are just thrashing the corners knee downs and all enjoying the adrenalin putting in a few casey stoner tactics and unfortunately took a corner wide its very sad to hear this news

[Mom]

I have read this thread, and multi quoted so many posts I would have exceeded the post limit for characters responding so...

Anytime a bike runs head on to another bike there must have been a very bad decision or mistake made by one rider, possibly both. It makes no difference what the reasoning or excuse is for it, it happened. Inexperience/testosterone/speed what ever, it happened.

As far as avoiding a head on with another bike, I think you make your choice as you see it. Of course the find an option other than direct hit is the optimum, but that may well prove impossible if the bike appears inside your ability to spot and react. Yes, amazingly enough there are some of us that actually dont travel close to the speed limit and at inappropriate times to boot.

I think this spate of death by motorcycling is tragic and above the norm for the "death months" of summer riding.

To propose the turn to the right to avoid is stupid, and goes against all your learned driving/riding experience. There can be no track comparison to the road riding experience of potentially meeting a bike/car head on, even allowing for time "slowing down", the track is not the road. Take your chances as you find them. I was told "always chose the softest option" and I constantly scan for it when I am riding.

There will always be dickheads out there, it is up to us to avoid placing ourselves in their path, and if that fails, being able to avoid them if at all possible.

[James Deuce]

I had a near miss head on recently. A rider with pillion bellowing up the white line between two lines of traffic, on a favourite hill road, perceived the gap behind a Ford F150 I was following to be clear.

It was not, I was in it. However I had spotted the headlight flashing between cars through the Ford's cab. I moved over to the gutter to make space and give me the option of dashing past the left hand side of the Ford into an approaching lay by if it all went a bit awry.

I suspect that it is only through seeing a situation like that developing with a couple of seconds (or more) to spare that you can truly avoid a head on. The blind brow/corner scenario will give you one brief instant to make a choice. It is better to do something rather than nothing, but your choice will be governed by your body chemistry and chance, not a conscious decision.

Overriding flight/fright takes either intense training or vast experience and pulling bits of a mate's bike out of the front of a ute teaches you pretty quickly that even people much fitter of body and sharper of mind still lose the surprise head on vs. pretty much anything else.

I always celebrate the avoiding action that causes me no stress at all as a nice piece of controlled riding. Planning will always beat panic and relying on your reaction time to save you puts your fate firmly in Lady Luck's hands.

Always expect the worst and you won't ever be disappointed, and you may have the opportunity to feel a bit smug from time to time.

[sinfull]

Good thread ma man, good reading everyones opinions an all that, but what would i do ?
Can drop my bike either side now, till my pegs are too angled to rest my feet on no more and pretty quick too i recon (but i'm old and it's relative they say), can scrub 100 km off my speed in christ knows how many mtrs, but know it stops bloody well !
Have lived that scenario in theory on many occasion !
But what would i do ?