Electric dirt bikes?

[cheese]

they're still gay tho!!


the electric thing is foolish from an environment point of view

especially this talk of electric cars. nz allready has enough trouble generating enough electricity to power what we have.

imagine how much power it would take for me to charge up my 200kw car to go for a 8 hour journey... ok you might say, no drama....

what about if 1 in 4 people in auckland decide to go away for the long weekend, so charge up their cars on thursday night..... yeah right!

Hmm I can see how you think like that, but its not quite correct.

You don't drive a 200kw car at its full power output constantly on a trip do you. And if you did, you'd either use alot of fuel, of have a lot of speeding tickets. Bikes yes you do tend to sit at full throttle more often. And I don't think that recharging a car is that impractical. Imagine a docking station when you drive into the garage that automatically charges your car. Or solar panels on the roof. The hybrid cars now are pretty good. I went for a ride in one in wellington (it was a taxi) and the guy said it uses half the fuel his Toyota Camry used and he said it was just as powerful.

As the Arabs get more greedy with oil, I'd say we will see electric technology get a big push. If things like Solar get more efficient it will go a long way towards Electric cars etc become more viable. A bit of a classic example is with RC planes, about 5 years ago everyone had petrol powered planes. Now because of the advances with BLDC motors and Lithium batteries, the power to weight ratio is now in many cases better then petrol powered planes. And the BLDC motors are also very low maintenance. One side effect will of course be batteries will need replacement as yes they have a limited life span. I think that I read for that Zero bike that they are $2500 USD for a battery. Mind you with it costing on average $40+ for fuel every time I take my bike out + thinks like engine parts etc, I wonder if it would all work to be reasonable even in the end.

So you all might say gay gay gay gay now, but I just think in 5-10 years time, we might see another revolution like the modern 4s have recently made.

[takitimu]

So you all might say gay gay gay gay now, but I just think in 5-10 years time, we might see another revolution like the modern 4s have recently made.

I agree, it solves noise issues & it provides huge torque, if all it did was solve noise I think it would be the future, but to also solve emissions ( though DeCoster pointed out a single 7474 flight produces more emission than all global dirt bikes in a year ), I think it's got real potential.

I might go for a wander & learn about these BLDC engines, sound interesting.

[Mystic13]

Kids are already running electric bikes in trials comps and winning. They're also making they're way into MX.

The Zero bike looks more light weight but the KTM looks more the part.

The electric kids stuff.



The Quantya electric bike has 23 ft/lbs of torque and the KTm has 29.5 ft/lbs. So imagine what the KTM goes like and you're ride weight is down some 30 kgs. So it's like riding with a kid as pillion when you ride the petrol bike over the KTM electric. That's a huge difference.

KTM wouldn't be mass producing if they didn't think it was a winner. (and the correct address this time)

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...ic-enduro.html

On the first vid you need to scroll through about 2 minutes to get to the riding.

[Mystic13]

There is no doubt that we are not only going to see electric bikes competing. We'll soon see them winning. At that point you'll see the field gradually switch to electric.

I don't know how clubs police the power issue though.

[oldskool]

There is no doubt that we are not only going to see electric bikes competing. We'll soon see them winning. At that point you'll see the field gradually switch to electric.

I don't know how clubs police the power issue though.

Or the 'Brand' issue because electric technology is easier and cleaner to design and build than grease monkey technology. We'll be seeing a lot of home grown cottage industry touting their design as being the best. (Zero for one) Brushless electric motors and PWM speed controllers weren't the issue. The biggest hurdle was battery technology and this obstacle is slowly being breached. Plenty of DIY electric mods have already been made to 'donor' dirt bikes, but these have been cumbersome due to the heavy wet cells clamped all over them.

[Mystic13]

That's true and then many people can't be bothered whipping their own bikes together. As for the cottage industry thing that's fine in theory but in reality anybody could have bought an off the shelf gas engine and built a bike. (As some did - Cagiva - Moto Morini (I assume looking at the engine).

The reason the cottage industry doesn't make it is not because they can't but because they generally can't sustain the business. The business collapses and... they end.

KTM, Honda etc aren't here today because they make great bikes they're here because they make great bikes and are good at marketing and managing a business.

The cottage industry has to be able to successfully manage cashflow, market it's product and create product credibility. A product warranty is only as good as the company.

As an example Oset only exist because they have created the product. If the big players step in with their perceived "quality and warranty" and price the bike sharp then Oset will likely die overnight.

I mean would you rather ride a "Yamaha, KTM, Honda etc" or an "Oset". The company has to be able to withstand a dip in sales.

I personally think the business model for vehicle manufacturers needs overhauling.

[cheese]

I agree, it solves noise issues & it provides huge torque, if all it did was solve noise I think it would be the future, but to also solve emissions ( though DeCoster pointed out a single 7474 flight produces more emission than all global dirt bikes in a year ), I think it's got real potential.

I might go for a wander & learn about these BLDC engines, sound interesting.

BLDC isn't new, F&P have been using them in washing machine for 30 years! LOL. yeah its more the jump in battery technology.

[oldskool]

That's true and then many people can't be bothered whipping their own bikes together. As for the cottage industry thing that's fine in theory but in reality anybody could have bought an off the shelf gas engine and built a bike. (As some did - Cagiva - Moto Morini (I assume looking at the engine).

The reason the cottage industry doesn't make it is not because they can't but because they generally can't sustain the business. The business collapses and... they end.

KTM, Honda etc aren't here today because they make great bikes they're here because they make great bikes and are good at marketing and managing a business.

The cottage industry has to be able to successfully manage cashflow, market it's product and create product credibility. A product warranty is only as good as the company.

As an example Oset only exist because they have created the product. If the big players step in with their perceived "quality and warranty" and price the bike sharp then Oset will likely die overnight.

I mean would you rather ride a "Yamaha, KTM, Honda etc" or an "Oset". The company has to be able to withstand a dip in sales.

I personally think the business model for vehicle manufacturers needs overhauling.

Without a doubt I would ride a branded model over home grown any day.

And if I were motivated enough to cobble one up, in typical kiwi fashion it would be because of the horrendous prices the marketing industry put on motor controllers etc. And for what? superior technology? nope, for superior packaging. Put enough mosfets in parallel and water cool them and you can handle 300 amps easy enough.

[barty5]

look out cheese is talkin bout fuel

still say at that price youd save money buy the lastest ova $$$$$ ktm and spending it in repairs and gas

[oldskool]

look out cheese is talkin bout fuel

still say at that price youd save money buy the lastest ova $$$$$ ktm and spending it in repairs and gas

Absolutely, the EV industry is way overpriced. It shouldn't be. There's less moving parts, and mainly solid state components. It should be sold for 1/3 of the price and still make profit.

[B0000M]

they just arent cool though!


current mx bikes look big and staunch. those electric bikes are mountain bikes with an engine

[Sammikins]

Gay. Gay gay gay gay gay.

[Mystic13]

Absolutely, the EV industry is way overpriced. It shouldn't be. There's less moving parts, and mainly solid state components. It should be sold for 1/3 of the price and still make profit.

In the kids bike the Oset is cheaper than the Yamaha.

In reality the cost of electrics compared to gas engine etc is not going to be hugely different. The cost of producing smaller runs of bikes is considerably greater and then you still have to run your business.

Even if the electric bikes are mass produced I'd find it hard to believe that a petrol bike would be much cheaper if at all than electric. Petrol engine, gearbox, carb, tank and basic electrics against, electric motor, complex controller, gearbox (assuming gear the motor down so really just a step down) fancy batteries, charging system etc. I can't conceive that the difference between these two would be two thirds the cost of a bike.

The cost of the bike equals the cost of hardware, plus the cost of manufacture, plus the cost of holding the stock, plus the cost to market the bike, plus the cost of ongoing research, plus profit to the manufacturer and profit to the dealer.

Engine cost whether it is electric or petrol will be a small component in the total cost.

Motorcycle manufacturers are good at dipping in the international parts bin. But the parts bin for electrics isn't big, there isn't volume yet. Marketing and research costs will be higher.

It's naive to think that 1/3 the cost should be the sale price and i suspect people naively will manufacture these bikes and forget the actual cost of running a business.

Oset have made some smart moves. I think they need to add a mx bike to the range of kids bikes. It's all about fashion and riding a trials bike in an mx event just isn't the look. Besides can you imagine never getting to sit down.

These are exciting times and as gas prices rise in coming years maybe the transition will happen sooner.

Someone blame the Arabs for oil prices. I thought they kept them pretty low. I thought Bush increased the price of oil by destabilising the world. Funny really. He goes into office and oil is less than $25 a barrel. He then works his magic and gets the price jacked up to over $125 and it doesn't cost his family a cent more to produce. That's an extra $100 plus of profit. That's racketering at it's best. There must be a cue of oil people paying his family royalties.

Heck I don't even think the mafia or the church would be disappointed with performance like that.

And what does Bush get for bleeding the world dry and from what I can see breaching the Geneva convention making him arguably a war criminal. Nothing.

I think in much of the world it is clear there is one law for America and one for the rest. Or arguably one law for Christianity and one for the rest. It seems there will be long lasting damage from this.

[oldskool]

In the kids bike the Oset is cheaper than the Yamaha.

In reality the cost of electrics compared to gas engine etc is not going to be hugely different. The cost of producing smaller runs of bikes is considerably greater and then you still have to run your business.

Even if the electric bikes are mass produced I'd find it hard to believe that a petrol bike would be much cheaper if at all than electric. Petrol engine, gearbox, carb, tank and basic electrics against, electric motor, complex controller, gearbox (assuming gear the motor down so really just a step down) fancy batteries, charging system etc. I can't conceive that the difference between these two would be two thirds the cost of a bike.

The cost of the bike equals the cost of hardware, plus the cost of manufacture, plus the cost of holding the stock, plus the cost to market the bike, plus the cost of ongoing research, plus profit to the manufacturer and profit to the dealer.

Engine cost whether it is electric or petrol will be a small component in the total cost.

Motorcycle manufacturers are good at dipping in the international parts bin. But the parts bin for electrics isn't big, there isn't volume yet. Marketing and research costs will be higher.

It's naive to think that 1/3 the cost should be the sale price and i suspect people naively will manufacture these bikes and forget the actual cost of running a business.

You're coming from the point of view of the profiting dollar where I am coming from an engineering perspective. For example. It would be far easier and cheaper to make a one off (ie custom build) 'complex' speed controller than a fuel injection unit from scratch. Also you would not necessarily need a step down gearbox for the electric motor...one less expense.

[cheese]

Hey Oldschool, you work in electronics too???

Electronics once sorted, is very cheap to make. Especially if mass produced.

Batteries are also coming down alot in price too. Capacity is always going up too. I remember about 3 years ago I got the biggest capacity AA i could get which was 2000mA. Now you can get over 3000mA last time I checked. That is a big jump.

i still think that you guys will see a big change for sure. Who would compalain about getting a 50hp electric bike that was under 80kg?