Pros and cons of the slipper clutch?

[MsKABC]

Go on, pleeeeeaseeee!!!! Were they white? (Where's scracha, he has some new breeches)

Maybe I'll start another thread.....

You know when you go out with one of those horse riding chicks that wears the pants that go like that.
(imagine the hand movements going on hear, bear with me)

Then you get her home and take off her pants and her legs still go like that!

Mine weren't the ones that were baggy around the bum/thighs, they were tight all the way to the top. That was in my body-building/pre-children days however

[Mikkel]

Try gripping the tank with your knees.

Which you can do quite easily whilst still having the right amount of cheek of the side of the bike. Keeping the arms loose is critical to aid feel of the front which becomes important when you've developed the skill of trail braking.

While I agree that gripping the tank helps with balance and support both laterally and longitudinally - I can not see how you would be able to do so as you move to really get your weight off the bike coming into a corner (I may have fairly wide thighs but I can't touch the tank and road surface at the same time without getting the elusive and unwanted handlebar down effect as well). But hell, I don't know - I might just be setting up for the corner a bit too early in anticipation of the feel of nylon on tarmac. (Not to say I've had my knee to the deck with the zx7 yet, but I may indeed setup for the corner a bit early - it was certainly hard on my arms downshifting under braking anyway.)

Irregardless, the slipper clutch most certainly turned what was often a bumpy, jerky braking procedure on the 250 into a smooth and pleasant affair on the 750.

[slofox]

I can only manage fair dinkum blips during warm-up and warm-down laps.



During my feeble attempts at race pace, feathering the clutch is as much as I'm capable of, I'm afraid.

I haven't mastered the art of blipping under heavy braking.. yet, and only remember to do it when I remember to do it, but it does come a lot more naturally on the Gixxer than on the Hornet.

Well. I can't imagine changing down without the blip...I think the only time I changed down without blipping the throttle was the first time I ever rode a bike - my mate's Chunderbir...er I mean THunderbird....ever since then I have done it without thinking. As I said earlier, I rely on engine braking quite heavily when I have to throw out the picks in a hurry.....

[jrandom]

Well. I can't imagine changing down without the blip...I think the only time I changed down without blipping the throttle was the first time I ever rode a bike - my mate's Chunderbir...er I mean THunderbird....ever since then I have done it without thinking. As I said earlier, I rely on engine braking quite heavily...

Mmyes.

Sounds to me like you'd find, if you took your SV to a trackday, that you're not braking anywhere near as hard as it's capable of.

[HDTboy]

I can only manage fair dinkum blips during warm-up and warm-down laps.



During my feeble attempts at race pace, feathering the clutch is as much as I'm capable of, I'm afraid.

Adjust your throttle cables. It makes blipping easier, subconcious almost.

[dipshit]

Sounds to me like you'd find, if you took your SV to a trackday, that you're not braking anywhere near as hard as it's capable of.

It is possible to brake very hard and change down blipping in very quick secession as you go. Blip blip blip as you go and it's done!

[rocketman1]

Slofox,
The SV1000 has a back torque limiting clutch, I'm not sure about the 650, but essentially I believe its the same thing as the slipper clutch, it is to stop the back wheel locking up on down changes.
I have only locked the rear wheel once on the SV and that was at Taupo race track, and that was at the end of the front straight, I was too late braking into the corner and had to hall on all anchors and try and change down from 4th to 2nd in ( too shorter distance, for me anyway) the rear wheel was seriously unweighted, and started making all sorts of slipping skidding sounds, great fun!. I have changed down very fast ( during my stopping exercises) and on the road have never had the back wheel skid. So it must work to a reasonable extent. My Bandit used to skid the rear wheel easily when changing down and stopping very fast, but this little beast doesn't seem to have that disease.

[slofox]

Mmyes.

Sounds to me like you'd find, if you took your SV to a trackday, that you're not braking anywhere near as hard as it's capable of.

And you would be dead right Mr. Random. I already found that out when I did the advanced rider course here the other week.....after a bit of encouragement on the emergency braking section I stopped from 100k in just a little more than the same space as the original stop from 70k...

[slofox]

It is possible to brake very hard and change down blipping in very quick secession as you go. Blip blip blip as you go and it's done!

Yep - that is exactly what I do....

Slofox,
The SV1000 has a back torque limiting clutch, I'm not sure about the 650, but essentially I believe its the same thing as the slipper clutch, it is to stop the back wheel locking up on down changes.
I have only locked the rear wheel once on the SV and that was at Taupo race track, and that was at the end of the front straight, I was too late braking into the corner and had to hall on all anchors and try and change down from 4th to 2nd in ( too shorter distance, for me anyway) the rear wheel was seriously unweighted, and started making all sorts of slipping skidding sounds, great fun!. I have changed down very fast ( during my stopping exercises) and on the road have never had the back wheel skid. So it must work to a reasonable extent. My Bandit used to skid the rear wheel easily when changing down and stopping very fast, but this little beast doesn't seem to have that disease.

It IS the same thing according to what I have read...The 650 doesn't have one. You have to use change downs with a little discretion. Having said that, I have rarely locked up the back wheel in real life situations....

[HDTboy]

Back torque limiting clutches are similar to slipper clutches, but not the same thing.
The VFR750/400 type BTL works on a sprag type arrangement between the clutch basket and the input shaft to give the input shaft drive in one direction with reduced drive in the opposite direction, and is set at the factory.
Most modern slipper clutches use a ramp system to release the clutch plates the desired amount which can be tuned by using differring thicknesses of clutch 'steels', different strengths of clutch springs, and different amounts of preload on the springs.
A more sophisticated way of attacking the same problem.

[scracha]

Go on, pleeeeeaseeee!!!! Were they white? (Where's scracha, he has some new breeches)

You'd pay to see me in them.

Horses, no slipper clutch for them but braking technique is similar to the bike. The best slowing technique is a succession of gentle pulls. Applying the brakes too hard on a horse can have it locking up and you quickly get highsided by the bugger. Sometimes steering around the object you're going to hit is the best option.

Bikes, slipper clutch...probably overkill for the road. On big twins it stops nasty gobs of torque going back through the gearbox and doing damage. Bloody useful on an italian twin when it decides to fire on one cylinder mid-corner. Still locks up in the wet unless you muck around with them. Wonderful things when racing on a dry track though...bang it down too many gears...no drama. I still prefer the control from the clutch though. I'd use the rear brake to slow down if I could reach it.

Can't believe frosty uses one in F3, what a ham fisted cheating barsteward Bastadly expensive to replace though......... (sigh).

[TLDV8]

Slofox,
The SV1000 has a back torque limiting clutch...

Same as the TL1000's and Hayabusa,they have little in common with a slipper clutch to the point the mechanics of them are retarded.
They simply use a cam in the spring tower base to back the clutch spring height off (preload) which induces a claytons type slippage,it has no way to determine what the rear wheel is actually doing on deceleration.
The reason the TL1000 does the big revolution surge when power is applied in the upper gears, the cam in the clutch hub is trying to increase the spring pressure.



The later GSXR's slipper unit uses a cam under the hub which then uses three adjustable pins to lift the pressure plate.
Actual slippage and engage point can be changed via the diaphragm springs under the hub using Yoshimura replacements or a combination of them and the adjuster pin height.

As Mike (98TLS) said i elected to fit the GSXR unit to a TL1000 drive gear.

There are a few GSXR pics here showing how they work..fwiw.
Aftermarket versions are similar but normally use a ball and ramp system for lift which is more precise.

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...tch/?start=all



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[slofox]

Back torque limiting clutches are similar to slipper clutches, but not the same thing.
The VFR750/400 type BTL works on a sprag type arrangement between the clutch basket and the input shaft to give the input shaft drive in one direction with reduced drive in the opposite direction, and is set at the factory.
Most modern slipper clutches use a ramp system to release the clutch plates the desired amount which can be tuned by using differring thicknesses of clutch 'steels', different strengths of clutch springs, and different amounts of preload on the springs.
A more sophisticated way of attacking the same problem.

Same as the TL1000's and Hayabusa,they have little in common with a slipper clutch to the point the mechanics of them are retarded.
They simply use a cam in the spring tower base to back the clutch spring height off (preload) which induces a claytons type slippage,it has no way to determine what the rear wheel is actually doing on deceleration.
The reason the TL1000 does the big revolution surge when power is applied in the upper gears, the cam in the clutch hub is trying to increase the spring pressure.



The later GSXR's slipper unit uses a cam under the hub which then uses three adjustable pins to lift the pressure plate.
Actual slippage and engage point can be changed via the diaphragm springs under the hub using Yoshimura replacements or a combination of them and the adjuster pin height.

As Mike (98TLS) said i elected to fit the GSXR unit to a TL1000 drive gear.

There are a few GSXR pics here showing how they work..fwiw.
Aftermarket versions are similar but normally use a ball and ramp system for lift which is more precise.

.
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Thanks for the info guys - I am much enlightened.....

[glice]

I havnt ridden a bike with one, but it sounds good.

What happens if or when a slipper clutch fails? Can it?

[slofox]

Isn't a "slipper clutch" when you grab your slipper to stop the cat pissing in it...?