Why does a chain wear unevenly?

[Mc TOOL]

You're all talking shit.

Chains wear unevenly for two reasons:
Firstly, because of built-in bastardliness. If the manufactucturers built the wonderful, brilliantly manufactured, high-tech, super-duper chains they advertise, they'd last virtually forever. So they add a link or two here, and a roller there, and some wonky XYZ-rings there, that are bastards from the reject line. So your chain starts off looking all high-tech, shiny, gold-plated and wonderful, and gradually develops a personality of its own.
Secondly, they wear unevenly because no-one rides evenly. All that accelerating, wheelies, stoppies, riding over bumps, the swingarm pounding up and down, it acts in concert with the built-inbastardliness to fook the chain.
Thirdly, the bike and chain manufacturers pay the chain lube manufacturers to supply chain lube with secret ingredients such as abrasives, corrosion accelerators, and binding agents. They're all designed to produce a special grinding paste that's coloured red, so if you happen to go to a bike dealer, he can tell at a glance your chain is fookt, because it has red stuff on it.
Three-and-a-halfly, spooge. Chains are living organisms: they eat road spooge, drink chain lube, and shit out this nasty stuff called chain spooge. Stickier than the stickiest snot (which as we all know is gorilla snot), blacker and shittier than the blackest and shittiest black shit, in Nature it's designed as a fatal territorial marking to keep other chains away. Sadly, when the chain is captive on a bike, the chain spooge has nowhere to go but on the rider's leg, on the paintwork, and all over the chain itself, eventually causing PAMCFASITTRW (Premature And Messy Chain Failure And Serioius Injury To The Rider's Wallet).
Fourthly, misinformation about how to care for your chain. "WD40 will wreck your chain". "Use only motor oil". "Use only special chain lube" (with secret ingredients, of course).

All this has come about because chains are now fashion accessories. In the old days, they were hideously ugly, so they were hidden under clunky great chain guards, and never even thought about. Nowadays, you can get them anodised to match your bike or accessorise with your lingerie: gold, red, green, purple, or even leopard print. They all have fancy sexy names, and fancy 4-figure price tags, so you think you're buying into an exclusive chain-owners club. You feel good about your new acquisition, and about all the special chain care toiletries you're lavishing it with.
You scoff at owners of shaft-drive bikes, feel sorry for the poor guys with rubber band driven bikes, and smile your secret smile because you know they're not true motorcyclists who know how to clean and lube a chain, and become one with their machine. Those poor bastids!

Jeesus Vifferman , I thought I was king of the drug induced fantacy ranting
Id love a bag of whatever that was

[Mc TOOL]

There was a time , some few years ago, when manufacturers were all bring out shaft driven models, and it appeared that that archaic monstrosity the chain would (unlamentably) disappear from the motorcycling scene. Alas, it seems to have made a come back

I cannot understand why the manufacturers are allowed to get away with a fitment that requires constant attendance and maintenance , and *still* only lasts for a fraction of the time that any reasonable person would expect.

If manufacturers cannot fit a chain that will reliably last for 200000km (and I see no reason why they should not, they did in the past), then they should use shaft drive.

And don't get me started on modern tyres. Fifty years ago they lasted 30000 MILES. One would expect that with modern improved technology they should last at least 100000 km. To be expected to replace them after only 20000 km is absurd and unacceptable.
t

Yeah the chain is a bit of an engineering oddity but when you think of where it opperates , it doesnt have an easy life . most well cared for , well made chains will do 20000 km,s ( Im sure you didnt really mean 200000 km,s ). I have found ( over the many years I have ridden ) that regular cleaning and lubing wiil make any 1/2 decent chain last well.
Dont buy shit chains ( and they are out there !) , I use either regina, RK or did O ring chains. It is important ,too that the correct type is used , and dont trust the local bike shop to put you right there either , I bought a $180 chain for my 900ss and when I wanted a rivot link there were none available ..... turns out the chain was designed for a " up to 250 cc "motocross bike ( I put it on the kdx ) . as for the tryes , I think things are getting better. I used to be lucky to get 3000k's out of the old phantoms (VFR750 ) , then I got 5000k's from michelin m/a 59's ( on the paso ) and now I am 6000k's into a set of diablo's ( 900ss ) and there is still some left. I think tyres and chains often get the shit end of the stick maitainance wise and power outputs are well up on the old days ( remember when you had to know how to fettle a bike just to keep it going long enough get the girlfriend home to her anxious parents ). Shafts are cool , till you have to cough up for a set of rear drive gears ( 850t ) Phuck me !!! I didn't pay that much for the bike , Oh yeah does anyone have a alternater rotor for a 74 850t Guzzi they dont want ?

[Ixion]

I did mean 200000. A fully enclosed lubricated chain should easily be able to do that. If it can't the engineering's wrong.

[Brian d marge]

So ...if an oil enclosed chain does a million miles and an open chain doesnt ,,,the answer why a chain wears is.......

lubrication ,

stephen

[Motu]

Zigactly! So it's obviously a design fault - the manufacturer supplies a fully enclosed,lubricated and self adjusting primary or cam chain,alt chain,oil pump chain etc....and they last the life of the vehicle....if correctly designed.The fact that they supply an exposed and unlubricated final drive is because of consumer demand.....they want an exposed unlubricated chain....but they also want to complain about the maintenance,and the replacement cost.

When we see complaints outnumber requests,then we will see a design change.

[Ixion]

We almost did. twice. Once in the 70s with fully enclosed oil bath chains. And again in the 80s with shaft drive.

Where it all went wrong was when manufacturers when hog wild on producing race replicas. Race bikes use chains. Thereforethey must be the best thing for road bikes. Yeah. Right

Same with tyres. 6000km from a tyre is obscene. But until people lay down the law and demand better, they won't get it.

I refuse to use any tyre that will not give me 20000 km from the rear and 30000 from the front. And I think those figures are WAY lower than they should be

Bikers of the world, arise ! You have nothing to lose but your chains.

[Leyton]

Three-and-a-halfly, spooge. Chains are living organisms: they eat road spooge, drink chain lube, and shit out this nasty stuff called chain spooge. Stickier than the stickiest snot (which as we all know is gorilla snot), blacker and shittier than the blackest and shittiest black shit, in Nature it's designed as a fatal territorial marking to keep other chains away. Sadly, when the chain is captive on a bike, the chain spooge has nowhere to go but on the rider's leg, on the paintwork, and all over the chain itself, eventually causing PAMCFASITTRW (Premature And Messy Chain Failure And Serioius Injury To The Rider's Wallet).

Best reply ever! Hehe

[Mc TOOL]

Mr Ixion, I dunno if your for real. If you are then I would have to say that we have wildly different idea's and expectations from our motorcycling ( this , I think , is a good thing )
I would love to get 20'000 k's from a tyre , but only if I didnt have to sacrifice grip ( especially in the wet ) stabillity and just good cornering . My Diablo's are wearing well for me and stick well too. My motorcycles are largely hi performance toys now , not daily transport , so the economy of it all is not so important to me now . Years ago we had to commute from Invercargill to Heddon bush daily , and I did get pretty tight when coughing up for tyres and chains etc . Not so now ( shit ! the paso cost me more for tyres that petrol to ride ).
Same with the chains. I would not swap my open o'ring chain for any of the alternatives . How much would a suitable shaft drive add to the purchase price of an R1? 5 chains @ $200 = $1000 and would last me at least 100'000km's , bet you couldnt fit a shaft at the manufacturing stage, for $1000 , and no adjustable final drive ratio.
As motorcyclists we get shafted everywhere we go , acc levies , insurance , Tyres , spare parts & rego to start with , but when I throw the leg over and hit the button , none of it matters anymore , so forgive if I dont "rise up " . One thing that is apparent is that it aint so bad you have given up.......... me neither , Im gunna do this till I die

[Racin Jason]

Chains DO develop tight spots. Any of you ride dirt bikes?
Its usually because of lack of lube, and/or dirt/water/salt/god knows what entering past the orings and jamming them
Sometimes they get so tight you cant even move them without a vice and a hammer.
Some Kerosine or deisel will solve this. (CRC or solvents will swell the orings and casue stiff links, then your stuffed). Wash stiff links with a parts brush and blow it out several times with a dust gun. wash again and again while working the stiff links. Once its free, drown the whole chain in lube and refit.

Or buy a new chain.

PS, if you ride hard/race, cam chains wear out almost as quick as a drive chain - then your cam timing goes out. especially off road. Metal sliding on metal wears.

[Ixion]

Mr Ixion, I dunno if your for real. If you are then I would have to say that we have wildly different idea's and expectations from our motorcycling ( this , I think , is a good thing )
I would love to get 20'000 k's from a tyre , but only if I didnt have to sacrifice grip ( especially in the wet ) stabillity and just good cornering .

I do, and I don't

My Diablo's are wearing well for me and stick well too. My motorcycles are largely hi performance toys now , not daily transport , so the economy of it all is not so important to me now .

Speak for yourself. Mine ain't toys.

Years ago we had to commute from Invercargill to Heddon bush daily , and I did get pretty tight when coughing up for tyres and chains etc . Not so now ( shit ! the paso cost me more for tyres that petrol to ride ).
Same with the chains. I would not swap my open o'ring chain for any of the alternatives . How much would a suitable shaft drive add to the purchase price of an R1? 5 chains @ $200 = $1000 and would last me at least 100'000km's , bet you couldnt fit a shaft at the manufacturing stage, for $1000 , and no adjustable final drive ratio.

I suspect you could, and what of the NEXT 100000, and the next and the next?

As motorcyclists we get shafted everywhere we go , acc levies , insurance , Tyres , spare parts & rego to start with , but when I throw the leg over and hit the button , none of it matters anymore , so forgive if I dont "rise up " . One thing that is apparent is that it aint so bad you have given up.......... me neither , Im gunna do this till I die

Ah but My BMW has shaft drive, and tyres last 30000 km.

[scumdog]

And just got a Loobman oiler which is currently partly fitted. Just doing some improvements of the design and in the meantime give the nitpickers (they know who they are....) something to point out at the Garston Rally.

As-if Winston, as-if!!






Oooh...I resemble that remark

[tri boy]

The timing of this thread is perfect, as I'm in the process of evaluating the wear characteristics of a DID 530 VZ O-ring chain off my 95 Daytona, that has had 48000km wear on it.
I'll post pics of the various bits n bobs, and post a quick write up for those interested.
The opinions on wear characteristic's and my views on the use of lube etc are mine alone, and are open to being torn apart by the rabid dog that is KB X spurts. (remember though, I've replaced chains on everything from chainsaws to 80tonne forklifts, so I know a bit about them........i think).
Stay tuned.

[Mc TOOL]

Ah but My BMW has shaft drive, and tyres last 30000 km.

A BMW .I shoulda seen that comming , harley's dont have shafts

[tri boy]

I'm the worlds worst typist, so don't expect me to prattle on about the various levels of wear etc, but hopefully the photo's will give some indication of what wears in a road bike chain (decent brand) over a highish mileage.

Pic 1. Shows the chain in reasonable appearance, with no obvious links that are damaged, sticking etc. The O(X)-rings are all intact and a casual glance might encourage people to refit this chain to a road bike with about 100hp for another 10-20 thou km.

Pic 2. But let the inspection begin.

Pic 3.Shows how the case hardening has been worn through by loss of lubrication, load, friction, etc. Remember, this is/was one of the best grades of chain available, and the case hardened metal is of high quality.
Discussions about this pic could go on for a while, and the best way to prevent this can be discussed over many dozen beers. (I know this, because I have tried). However, the real wear that concerns me with chains is in pic 4.

Pic 4. The wear in the bushing to the right is of most concern to me, because if the pin wears right through this, the chain is on a very fast slope to failure.

[tri boy]

This argument has been around for ever.
Some say "just spray WD40/CRC on the O-rings, as the internal grease does the rest".
I respectfully disagree with this argument, as there are other parts of the chain/sprockets that require lube regularly to help extend there life.

Even the manufacturers don't get it totally correct in my opinion.
They suggest to "only dribble lube onto the area where the O-rings live"
(Scott oilers etc are well known for this, but sprockets wear just as quickly with an oiler fitted.
My approach is to use a quality spray lube (not spray wax) after cleaning the chain, then going for a short (5 min) ride. (kerosine is still my cleaner of choice).
Spray not only the O-ring area, but also the roller sleeve area. (The bit that the sprocket transfer force through).
By doing this, you will drastically reduce sprocket wear, (because there is an oil buffer between the sprocket tooth, and the roller).

Pic 1. By lubing the roller on the chain, your sprocket can still be in reasonable condition after 45000+ km. (I can hear the howls of protest about using a new chain on an old sprocket, but really, would you throw this sprocket away?)

Pic 2. "It does get in"!
By soaking just one pin in a small amount of chain lube for ten mins, (as seen in the first series of pictures, the contrast of lube, as apposed to just CRC is quite evident.

Pic 3. All O-rings, though worn, were in excellent condition. DID know rubber!

Pic 4. Probably the best way to identify internal bush wear, is by closly inspecting the gap difference between outside plates. The right side has a wider gap, indicating both pin and bush wear.