Maybe time for a new bike

[B0000M]

nothing can be compared to the "bummer hummer' though.......

hummers make you an expert at attaching parts- all the ones that fall off

[Blair.DRZ]

I guess I was under the impression that with a 2 stroke you had to be revving the snot out of it and were pretty gnarly to ride.
For me smoother, easily controlled power is what i'm after, something that you can get through the tighter/harder stuff in low revs with, so if the 2 stroke exec's are more like that to ride then I'm more than open to trying them.

[Dent]

Jetting and PV tuning/pipe can make a huge difference to how a 2 stroke performs. The "enduro" tuned 300's are the sort of bike you should try.

In the really slow twisty stuff they're probably easier to ride than a 4 stroke, as you dont have the rapid decel (engine braking) when you close the throttle.

[camchain]

Feel the power of the dark side. You should definitely try a 2 stroke at some point, although a short ride probably not enough to get used to the differences. Took me a few rides to get back into it (but mine is pretty short tempered due to it's current power valve issue).

Two things I really like about them in the tighter stuff:

1. Light and flickable. less engine rotating mass an important factor, not just lighter overall weight. Think of what happens when trying to twist a spinning bicycle wheel by holding its axle.

2. (You beat me to the punch dent) My personal favourite 2 stroke trait - No engine braking. Makes it much easier and smoother through the trees when dialling gas on and off in small doses. I used to turn the idle up a fair bit on my 4 stroke to try and soften the engine braking effect. Engine braking is great on long steep downhills but overall I'm much happier without it.

[fergie]

It's a pleasure to read a thread that has usefull information and clear reasoning instead of off the cuff,brash statements with no substance or examples to back it up,well done guys.

[B0000M]

something i find with the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thing, is i find the 2 stroke a lot harder to stall than the 4 stroke, and as an added bonus a lot easier to start again if you do.

+1 for the rotating mass comment, riding a 450 4t vs a 250 2t (comparable power amount), the 4t feels like you're trying to manouvre a truck through a trail compared to a 2t. the bike's weight on the scales is not too much different, but you feel it with the rotating mass

[B0000M]

It's a pleasure to read a thread that has usefull information and clear reasoning instead of off the cuff,brash statements with no substance or examples to back it up,well done guys.

here in the off road section our debates usually have substance, which is why some in here tend to get annoyed when some road bikers jump in and say irrelvant things with no basis

thanks for not being one of them.

[Dent]

The old drz400 has so much crank/flywheel weight that its pretty hard to stall, compared to the newer 450's.

The gasgas feels like a nimble mountain bike compared to the drz, in a good way Mind you, so did a ktm 525 4 stroke

A link to some gasgas reviews. Worth a look, not that im trying to sell you a gasgas or anything - and its more likely that you will find a ktm 300exc to try, as there are more around. The 250's are also worth a try if a ride is offered.

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1959

[secondfield]

Hmmm, The modern 450 is an entirely different beast to the DRZ 400. As you all know the flywheel is almost non existant, which makes a huge difference in riding style. You ride it more like you would an old two stroke (feathering the clutch).

I agree with the statement re engine braking/stalling and to compensate I wind up my idle. You have to get it within quite a fine tolerance, so as to reduce the chances of stalling in a trailriding / tight situation, and also not to have the bike 'push' you when off the gas going down hill. There is a compromise to be found. After riding xr250's/400's/600's most off my life I find a 450 to be beautifully rideable. Its a real lightweight for me (6'3 and 94kg's).

And now just for fergie an off the cuff, coarse comment...

Bum, titty, doodle, bum, titty, doodle.

[crazyxr250rider]

yep 450s are great im sellin mine if your interested.

[laserracer]

we have both i have a yz426 and my son has a yz250 2 stroke both have more than enough power the 250 is lighter and better at the tight twisties and the 426 is better for grunting up hills and straught forrest tracks the 250 jumps better.. really depends on your style of riding
oh by the way the 250 has a 13oz ffw and a fmf fatty
its a great woods bike, so it will idle down low and has a great bottom end
ive also ridden a drz 400 totaly different bike than the yz, but i suppose they are really, ones a trail bike and the others a mx bike

[Blair.DRZ]

I reckon a 450 would have more power than i would ever use, but the 300exc is sounding interesting, always thought I would stick with a 4 stroke but the 2 stroke riders are changing my mind
I ride up Karapoti mostly which has a bit of everything, so calling on the knowledge of Kezzafish and Secondfield ( sounds like you guys ride Karapoiti a lot ), you reckon a 300exc would be sweet up there ?

[Rupe]

I reckon a 450 would have more power than i would ever use, but the 300exc is sounding interesting, always thought I would stick with a 4 stroke but the 2 stroke riders are changing my mind
I ride up Karapoti mostly which has a bit of everything, so calling on the knowledge of Kezzafish and Secondfield ( sounds like you guys ride Karapoiti a lot ), you reckon a 300exc would be sweet up there ?

Just wondering what makes you think you need a big bore 4 or 2stroke?

[secondfield]

you reckon a 300exc would be sweet up there ?

Christ, if that ain't sweet up there nothing is! ha

My personal take on it is it depends on (not limited too but including):

a. How many bikes youv'e had exposure/familiarity with and actually had a go on or know mates of the same abilites who have (but I guess thats why your here!).

b.Your personal fitness/body weight/strength/stamina has a bearing on it also. We could debate the whole 2t vs 4t thing for YEARS (have been doing it aye!). But ive found each to their own... at the moment Im into 450's. You can still get a huge hit off them when ya crank the throttle and they feel lighter than my past steed's. XR's,IT's and a YZ490 (killer). Remembering my other bikes were 15 years + old and the tech wasn't quite what it is these days..

I did have a KTM exc 400 (circa 98) and found it a wee bit underpowered. The new exc400's are magic apparently.

My mates drz400 is heavy, but you can ride it all day, and when you get stuffed it does the work for you on climbs etc. To me the 450 is a (considerable) notch up in performance and handling. I love working the clutch on them up shitty rutted hills and feeling the fat four stroke power go to the dirt. Also throwing it into a corner and metering out the delivery gives you a feeling of control more so than a heavy flywheel machine. Being a 450 it can tractor around also when my body lacks energy after 4+ hours. I like the light weight of the 450 (112kgs) because I was used to heavy pigs in the past.I guess its relative to what you know and are familiar with.

Id love a crack on a 300exc, being a big bore enduro machine I reckon they will be close to what a modern 450mx'er with a flywheel weight is like. Remember a 2T 250/300 will make as much power as a 450, but they need to be kept 'on the pipe' to get the most out of them.Although I hear the exc300 can be ridden like a four. Generally they are a bit more work if your not an expereinced rider.

But then theres the venerable kdx200. An ass kicker of a bike. User friendly also... and so it goes on

My 450 (and the other one ive owned an 05' RMZ450) I love. They are nothing to be afraid of, quite rideable actually, no scary on/off power hit like some ill tuned 2T's. And contrary to popular belief they last ages if looked after. Some exc's (450's) have over 200 hours on them without all the 'oh my god youve gotta do the piston and top end!!' stigma. Unless your riding them HARD OUT ie Mx every weekend, they'll go forever.

Just my 2 cents worth anyway...

Your more than welcome to have a gas on my bike next time your riding Karipoti to see if you like the 450 taste, drop us a PM before you plan your next mission and we'll sort something out.

[Blair.DRZ]

In reply to your question rupecopp, I guess its what i'm used to, i like the low down grunt that just pulls you up any hill.
I have always heard that smaller 2 strokes are really aggressive, my mate has a RM250, that thing is pretty scary and that the 250 4 stroke mxers are failry high maintenance ( just going on what I was told ), so was going to stick with what I know.