Follow up with the Ambulance Comms Centre

**BMWST?** · 27th February 2009, 20:57

there is a newish numbering system where( as klingon has already stated) whereby the propert number is related to km from "main road".I am going to a place on sunday...its number was 237 abot 6 months ago but now its 707(7.7 km? from SH2)

**Ixion** · 27th February 2009, 21:23

Originally Posted by pete376403

Is there an equivalent for sheep, pig or other non-dairy farms? (serious question)

Dunno. Might be they use the same system, just a general "find a farm" number.

**Buellluva** · 27th February 2009, 22:22

Hi Nasty,

sorry to hear about your loss, I've had a couple of close friends go on bikes and it sucks.

I did 6 years in the ambo's in comm's up in Auckland, some as a TL in charge of the room, and this sort of thing does happen from time to time, it is a sad fact of life but these guys are human and do make mistakes. It was every Call-takers/Dispatchers worst nightmare.

I'm sure not trying to defend this case, best of luck with the investigation, but to give you an idea of problems faced, when we took over Northland, we would get calls for a big crash on "snake hill", the locals didn't know the street name, and this is where problems start, when call-takers or dispatchers don't know the area.

It was an area we constantly trained on, we did trips to other areas where the local ambo's would show us around and give us the locations of places like snake hill etc.

My opinion on this, right or wrong, is that there are only 3 ambo comms centers now, instead of about 7. A lot of the comms members in the smaller centers that got closed, decided not to take on jobs in the big smoke, ChCH, Wlg & Akl, so huge amounts of local knowledge, that stops this sort of thing happening, was lost and call-takers/dispatchers end up working off maps in areas they are unfamiliar with.

Knowing your exact location sure helps, always know the name of the road, or if its a state highway what the nearest town is, in the country the road markers . Most of all if you have to make that call to 111, be calm and get the call-taker to repeat all your address info back to you, make sure they have the right address.

As I said I'm not trying to defend this case, just trying to let you know how hard, and what obstacles are faced every day by these guys.
All the best.

**Nasty** · 28th February 2009, 07:55

Originally Posted by Buellluva

Hi Nasty,

sorry to hear about your loss, I've had a couple of close friends go on bikes and it sucks.

I did 6 years in the ambo's in comm's up in Auckland, some as a TL in charge of the room, and this sort of thing does happen from time to time, it is a sad fact of life but these guys are human and do make mistakes. It was every Call-takers/Dispatchers worst nightmare.

I'm sure not trying to defend this case, best of luck with the investigation, but to give you an idea of problems faced, when we took over Northland, we would get calls for a big crash on "snake hill", the locals didn't know the street name, and this is where problems start, when call-takers or dispatchers don't know the area.

It was an area we constantly trained on, we did trips to other areas where the local ambo's would show us around and give us the locations of places like snake hill etc.

My opinion on this, right or wrong, is that there are only 3 ambo comms centers now, instead of about 7. A lot of the comms members in the smaller centers that got closed, decided not to take on jobs in the big smoke, ChCH, Wlg & Akl, so huge amounts of local knowledge, that stops this sort of thing happening, was lost and call-takers/dispatchers end up working off maps in areas they are unfamiliar with.

Knowing your exact location sure helps, always know the name of the road, or if its a state highway what the nearest town is, in the country the road markers . Most of all if you have to make that call to 111, be calm and get the call-taker to repeat all your address info back to you, make sure they have the right address.

As I said I'm not trying to defend this case, just trying to let you know how hard, and what obstacles are faced every day by these guys.
All the best.

Thank you for your condolences ... and good that you do not defend this screw up - as the investigation will show that is partly what it is. My job is to make sure that this does not happen again ... the transcripts will be interesting - I know they show ALL INFORMATION to get where they needed to was given - in three of the calls received by the centres - this in itself has led to policy changes - which will come out of the recommendation.

My background is a little different to most - I was involved in health standards for years - I was involved in the ambulance standards - I know about care and what is required - I also know how to go about getting things changed to make it better. This is the journey I am on. This system will improve and that will be a legacy to Grub. There are no excuses - and no apologies make this better ... I am lucky to have a really good understanding of the systems and how they work or don't - which means we can make them better.

**mujambee** · 28th February 2009, 08:02

Originally Posted by Buellluva

. . . and call-takers/dispatchers end up working off maps in areas they are unfamiliar with.

Then it may be a good idea to always carry with you a map of the area, so you can see the same as the guy on the other side can see...

**scumdog** · 28th February 2009, 08:04

Originally Posted by Ixion

I think that's the Milk tanker number? About a five digit number, big blue letters?

Nah, they're rectangular and smaller in hight, lots of places have both numbers - maybe soembody more pic.-savvy could post a pic of both??

**scumdog** · 28th February 2009, 08:07

Originally Posted by BMWST?

there is a newish numbering system where( as klingon has already stated) whereby the propert number is related to km from "main road".I am going to a place on sunday...its number was 237 abot 6 months ago but now its 707(7.7 km? from SH2)

Yup, they now indicate how many km from the start of the road, save fluffing around guessing how far down the road the property is, no use cruising slowly looking for a place when the RAPID number is 984 or similar and you've just turned onto the road.

**pete376403** · 28th February 2009, 10:08

Around 1989 when I was at IBM I installed an AS400 system at Wgtn Free Ambulance that was going to hold a database of all streets in the area that WFA service. The plan was a dispatcher could call up a map of an area and use that to direct the ambulance crews. AFAIK it never came to anything.
Now they could just go online to Wises maps

**sunhuntin** · 28th February 2009, 10:48

Originally Posted by Road Guardian

- Name Confusions
I think the ideas brought up by sunhuntin and GurlRacer are good ideas, and I guess that is what the course of action will be by North Comms. Although we use nicknames and other names for certain roads, If we learn the real names of the roads that would make things easier for gaining a location.

this lead me to another thought. each ambulance covers a set area, is that right [except in extreme circustances like mass pile up etc] could each ambo be provided with a tabbed flip folder containing small maps like in the small spiral books? the maps could then show a certain area and hold both common and proper road names [ie, map b could show the forgotten highway, while maps a and c show the areas on either side]
the maps could be related directly to the area the ambulance normally covers.
the full maps could be kept in ambos for situations where they need to travel outside their usual zone.

the index could be done by both common and correct names.

**Buellluva** · 28th February 2009, 10:59

Good on you nasty, its real hard to not be bitter about a case like this, when its personal with a loss.

I agree with you completely, finger pointing and assigning blame, may help to feel like you have had some justice done, but in reality achieves very little. The most important thing out of this case is to make sure procedures are implemented, so this never happens again. That they learn from this, and that no-one else goes through what you guys went through is the number one thing, at least then you can feel something was achieved by grub's passing.

Good for you for having the courage to follow this up, a lot of others would be so lost in their grief they wouldn't bother. The only way to get things changed is to make sure the ambo's keep learning and constantly evolving by putting the pressure on them and demanding answers, also making sure they tell you what they will change, so hopefully these things cease happening.

Well done, you're doing a great service to all motorists, making it safer for all of us. I hope time will ease your suffering, thanks from all bikers.

**speights_bud** · 28th February 2009, 11:08

Originally Posted by Ixion

Dunno. Might be they use the same system, just a general "find a farm" number.

mum and dads place is '57' as it is 0.57km from the main road turn off, it has been this for many years, most rural driveways etc will have a blue number on it, if it's hanging from a sign as such it's probably the dairy farm reference one, the original blue plates were nailed to a post or something

**Ixion** · 28th February 2009, 12:19

What happens if there are two houses within 100 metres? They can't both be '57' ? And what if there are two houses opposite each, on each side of the road?

I've never seen such numbers up here. The big blue really easy to see tanker numbers. And the usually missing obscured and invisible house numbers.

**scumdog** · 28th February 2009, 12:22

Originally Posted by Ixion

What happens if there are two houses within 100 metres? They can't both be '57' ? And what if there are two houses opposite each, on each side of the road?

I've never seen such numbers up here. The big blue really easy to see tanker numbers. And the usually missing obscured and invisible house numbers.

Unlekely ever to be EXACTLY opposite each other so most likely they will have numbers like 57 and 58 (or 56).

**Road Guardian** · 28th February 2009, 12:53

Originally Posted by sunhuntin

this lead me to another thought. each ambulance covers a set area, is that right [except in extreme circustances like mass pile up etc] could each ambo be provided with a tabbed flip folder containing small maps like in the small spiral books? the maps could then show a certain area and hold both common and proper road names [ie, map b could show the forgotten highway, while maps a and c show the areas on either side]
the maps could be related directly to the area the ambulance normally covers.
the full maps could be kept in ambos for situations where they need to travel outside their usual zone.

the index could be done by both common and correct names.

Yes, most vehicles have a town/suburbs to cover, although they may move around and be on standby in certain areas for coverage. Particular in the cities.

Yes, all ambulances should have a through map book of some sort in each vehicle, I do not know how each region setup their own map books, as there will all ways be a discrepancy between a different regions.
I know in our region we carry our own map books for our area, and we also carry maps of neighboring areas.

I think one way would be to have a couple of pages at the back of the map book with a list of common names and next to them the actual names with cross references to the main maps.

Having said that, I still think the best approach would be to have all that information in each communication center, where they translate the common name given as the location into the actual name for the emergency crews to respond to. As you can easily confuse people if you start using a new process.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the local crews will have local knowledge of these kind of places. I remember a job that told us the location was the first iron bridge down the said road, and I knew exactly where that was, based on local knowledge. But crews may not know the names that we (bikers) call them.