1st genuine post hehe... target fixation

[smoky]

Mate a racing line is something different again. Racing line would have me starting a right hander from the far left then diving across to the far right of the road. Thats kinda like playing russian rulete on the road--eventually an oncoming cars gonna getya.
But if you can imagine 2 riders. both on identical bikes.
One on the right turn sees the apex and goes to the left then makes his turn from that point The other guys stays in the right wheel track.

I don't disagree - your talking about where you should apex a corner and that does depend on where you are on the road
But that's not the same as 'the apex of the corner' which was my small point of difference.

To explain to newer riders about apexes wouldn't we be better talking about the fixed geometric apex of the corner - and reference that to where they should apex the corner? Example;
left handers - I tend to hang out wide toward the center of the road, (depending on vision for oncoming traffic), then once I have the apex of the corner sighted I drop in and late apex on the exit - rather than early apexing the corner and drifting wide on the exit.
Right handers - I stay out wide then late apex, rather than staying in the middle of the lane cornering on the apex or earlier and drifting to the edge of the road and getting messed up with the loose stuff.

They tend to be the two main mistake a lot of new riders make, other than braking.

[smoky]

.. the main thing is that for those that might be actually looking to glean something useful it becomes more confusing than anything else and creates more questions than it does answers.
........
BTW - this post isn't meant to ruffle feathers...I'm not having a go at any of the peeps who were disagreeing with each other on here. Just coming at this from a 'learners' perspective.

Not just learners - I've been on and off bikes for 30 + years; since joining KB I have read some interesting posts, and as you point out it leaves you with more questions than answers sometimes. But as a result of having questions you end up discussing it with mates who also ride - often as a result of those conversations I improved some aspects of my riding.

Asking questions about things you may never of thought about - if it hadn't been for someone posting on KB.
Bikes have changed, tyres have changed, traffic has changed.
And you're never too old to learn

I have gleamed a fair bit from riding with Terminaladdict - yet he's only been riding a short time compared to me

[FROSTY:Me]

Yea mate -Take my word on this one its a terminology issue between you n Mstrs same as in this instance.
You are both preaching from the same book just sayin it a different way

[Number One]

Not just learners - I've been on and off bikes for 30 + years; since joining KB I have read some interesting posts, and as you point out it leaves you with more questions than answers sometimes. But as a result of having questions you end up discussing it with mates who also ride - often as a result of those conversations I improved some aspects of my riding.

You never stop learning I agree. Change is inevitable...growth is optional!

For me though the back and fro arguments often end up completely dismissed from mind as it becomes hard to track all the ins and outs of what the various posters are trying to say. I tend to just carry on doing whatever it is that I do on a bike and trying to relax. RELAX is by far the biggest thing I need to put my mind to doing.

ALSO I am lucky in that I live with my motorcycling mentor and he sees me ride both on the road and on the track. I jump off my bike and generally have him right there to ask questions of and compare notes and ideas with so I think having this is a BIG BONUS....I get to discuss things as they are immediately relevant to my riding.

It helps too that I respect his skills and abilities as a rider plus he is able to pass info on really effectively...even though I'm his wife!!! GO figure I credit getting my knee down in the wet (without crashing) the first time I rode the RG50 (at the bucket races) to his awesome tutoring...I wasn't even trying..it came as a total shock to have my knee on the deck! I had just listened to what he'd said about not leaning the bike as much as I tend to do and instead to shift my weight allowing for more rubber available to keep me stuck to the track

You are both preaching from the same book just sayin it a different way

Indeed - that's what makes it hard to fathom any good learnings. Get yourself a mentor whom you can easily learn their version of terminology and lingo and they yours! It will help a lot.

[MSTRS:Me]

To explain to newer riders about apexes wouldn't we be better talking about the fixed geometric apex of the corner - and reference that to where they should apex the corner? Example;
left handers - I tend to hang out wide toward the center of the road, (depending on vision for oncoming traffic), then once I have the apex of the corner sighted I drop in and late apex on the exit - rather than early apexing the corner and drifting wide on the exit.
Right handers - I stay out wide then late apex, rather than staying in the middle of the lane cornering on the apex or earlier and drifting to the edge of the road and getting messed up with the loose stuff.

That's what I said....
"Judge not, least ye be judged". Hmmmm??

Yea mate -Take my word on this one its a terminology issue between you n Mstrs same as in this instance.
You are both preaching from the same book just sayin it a different way

Yep

You never stop learning I agree. Change is inevitable...growth is optional!

When we stop learning, we may as well be dead. And the more one rides, the more one realises that it is impossible to know it all.

Indeed - that's what makes it hard to fathom any good learnings. Get yourself a mentor whom you can easily learn their version of terminology and lingo and they yours! It will help a lot.

Talking face to face, before, during and after a 'training' ride is best. If you know and trust someone with plenty of experience, that's great...use them. If you don't know someone like that, then that is where the KB mentor system comes in. Find a mentor in your area and get them to go on that ride etc.
The advice sought and given online can sometimes just be too wordy and 'technical' to make sense.

[FROSTY:Me]

Thats what I try to do --dumb it right down.
No point in talking moot points between apex n late and counter this n that when the rider doesnt even know how to work the clutch

[MSTRS:Me]

So it would seem that the best course of action for anyone asking riding advice on here, is to tell them to go find someone ( but not a mentor on here, cos we is all arrogant fuckwits who don't know what we is talking about) to take them out and show them. For gawds sake, don't presume to tell them in words on here?

[A_Mans_Ruin]

I found that all great to advice to think on thanks , I think????
I have been getting more relaxed going into the corner now, and it helps I am getting to know certains roads nicely....
Had a friend ride behind me and point out the one thing thats bugging me, it was good to hear that feedback too coz it confirmed the issue.
I have also managed to incounter lovely new greasy tarmac shit on one of the corners that I wasnt expecting, on that note I was thinking on escape route not fixation, also remembering not to brake (at least hard!!!). Go figure...... I think using this forum and advice from friends was defenitley eye opening.

So this week slightly more confidence in general

[howdamnhard]

Went out with a few KB'ers on a ride this weekend and my main focus was my cornering I have been a nana of the late and have been very gentle with the mighty 250 (pfffft) lol.... So time to try some real riding!!!
I had never really spoken to anyone about target fixation except my sleezy instructor on my Bike skills course. I had previously tended to watch the corners and try and get round them, this weekend I managed to get my bike reasonably low and a bit tighter into the corners holding my focus point at a good distance ahead, wait dead possum oh fark where was I looking again... Anyways just wanted to have my rave and to say that I LEARNDED something yay.....
Am wanting a bit more advice on cornering, I have good riding experience generally and am a reasonably confident rider.... Just nana on corners!

Lots of riding helps.Slow into corners, fast out when its clear ahead.Look away from where you don't want to go and look at where you want to go.Try stay on the outside as long as possible to give you a good view of the upcoming corner,but not to close to the centreline(oncoming traffic crossing centrelines) or outside road edge(gravel,moss,leaves etc).Be in the right gear,I prefer lower so I can use engine for braking,but it depends on bike type and riding style/personal preferences.Anyway its all probably been said already.Just ride more and take it at a comfortable pace,its not a race but about having fun and enjoying the ride.Aim for smoothness.

[dangerous]

Am wanting a bit more advice on cornering, I have good riding experience generally and am a reasonably confident rider.... Just nana on corners!

Hi there... you been dodging me for some odd reasn?
Hey was it you I saw on Blenheim Rd Friday I think on ya bike? blue no markings and no lower fairing but he top is on it.

As for the quote above, more than happy to offer any help, I have tought a few that now out ride me... however my style of riding may not suit you as its only my opinion of the beter way.

I would follow you to see how you are then offer advice and have you follow me.
Just an idea.

Darryl D