Unresolved conversation...

[Headbanger]

Whether this is just an ambiguity on the LTNZ Website, or a hole in the actual law, is unclear.

Neither, Its a sensible law.

Stop, look, proceed.

[davereid]

"Stop where you can see vehicles coming from all directions." In practice, this can be well back from the yellow lines in some cases. It is often well over the lines in other cases.

In theory, if you are second in a queue at a Stop Sign, and can clearly see in both directions, you can be deemed to be following the letter of the law if you don't stop again at the head of the queue.

Whether this is just an ambiguity on the LTNZ Website, or a hole in the actual law, is unclear.

The markings on the road are intended as a guide as to where you should stop. You are completely within the law if you stop before them, even by a bikelength or more, as long as you have a clear view of the road from your chosen vantage point.

Its actually quite a sensible provision, trees, signs, etc can often mean stopping early, (or late) can give you a much better view.

[Virago]

The markings on the road are intended as a guide as to where you should stop. You are completely within the law if you stop before them, even by a bikelength or more, as long as you have a clear view of the road from your chosen vantage point.

Its actually quite a sensible provision, trees, signs, etc can often mean stopping early, (or late) can give you a much better view.

Precisely my point.

Nowhere does it say that if you are stopped with another vehicle in front of you, and can see clearly in both directions, that you must move forward and re-stop when the other vehicle moves.

[yungatart]

Precisely my point.

Nowhere does it say that if you are stopped with another vehicle in front of you, and can see clearly in both directions, that you must move forward and re-stop when the other vehicle moves.

Which is precisely the point Mstrs was trying to make.
This all came about due to a conversation we had with another biker where I said Mstrs had waved me through a Stop sign, much to the chagrin of the person we were talking to.
I had stopped behind Mstrs, when he took off he let me know that I could too.
I have to add, that I would not necessarily do this if anyone else had waved me through. Mstrs knows my riding style/ability etc...if he thought it was safe, who am i to argue.
He is not going to put his dearly beloved at unnecessary risk, is he?

[MSTRS:Me]

So, basically we have what amounts to another grey area.....as long as you have stopped (within a queue or otherwise).
But no one has a problem with overtaking on an ordinary everyday two lane bridge (one each way)?

[scumdog]

Precisely my point.

Nowhere does it say that if you are stopped with another vehicle in front of you, and can see clearly in both directions, that you must move forward and re-stop when the other vehicle moves.

It doesn't.

And you don't have to.

[MSTRS:Me]

It doesn't.

And you don't have to.

Yep, thanks Scummy, at least part of the answer I was looking for. At what point in the queue should the following vehicles stop before proceeding through? Let's assume a standard T intersection, country road meeting a main road, visibility for miles, even 50 feet back from the corner (yes, I realise that this would prolly be a give way but lets pretend...)

[scumdog]

Yep, thanks Scummy, at least part of the answer I was looking for. At what point in the queue should the following vehicles stop before proceeding through? Let's assume a standard T intersection, country road meeting a main road, visibility for miles, even 50 feet back from the corner (yes, I realise that this would prolly be a give way but lets pretend...)

You stopped where you could see CLEARLY to each side for a reasonable distance?

Feel free to carry on.

But 50 feet back from the corner would be pushing it on most occassions.

Back to TV1 draag racing.

[Max Preload]

Having personal experience with getting off a ticket for supposedly not stopping for a compulsory STOP sign, I can offer this: you do not have to be the vehicle closest to the limit line when you stop and the limit line is there only for a guide. That is to say, as in my case, when you are the second vehicle, come to a complete stop behind the first, then seeing the way is clear, proceed to follow the first vehicle through the STOP without stopping again, you are not breaking any regulations. That is to say, there is no requirement for each and every vehicle to stop in turn. As long as you stopped at a position where you can see that there are no vehicles which you must give way to, you're good to go.

[tigertim20]

my understanding is that when EACH vehicle arrives at the front, and is at the sign, they MUST stop, when you are in the queue, (sp) you have not yet arrived at the stop sign, and therefore need to stop when you actually reach the sign.
You need to check that it is safe for YOU to go, before going, e.g. the vehicle in front of you may enter the flow of traffic into a gap that only safely allows ONE vehicle to enter, additionally, if you just go, you are praying that the guy in front of you isnt being an idiot and pulling out at an unsafe time, you are putting you life in their hands.

[98tls]

It doesn't.

And you don't have to.

Really?Well thats exactly what i got pinged for,line of cars at stop sign,he stopped i stopped,he went when clear so did i next thing the disco lights.SD you will know the stop sign i am on about,the one at the monument in Oamaru,visibility both ways aplenty.

[cowboyz]

Agreed that you do not have to stop on the line but have to stop in a position you can see the way is clear. What other road users are doing is of no consequence. To add though, a stop on a bike means that the bike stops moving and at least one foot touches the ground. It is not acceptable to stop while balancing the bike and then carrying on without putting your foot on the road.
As for bridges. No problem at all passing on them if there is no yellow lines and clear vision, it is just another road. There is a bridge shortly east of Ashhurst leading to the gorge. 300m bridge, striaght road. No problem at all passing on it.

[TLDV8]

my understanding is that when EACH vehicle arrives at the front, and is at the sign, they MUST stop, when you are in the queue, (sp) you have not yet arrived at the stop sign, and therefore need to stop when you actually reach the sign.
You need to check that it is safe for YOU to go, before going, e.g. the vehicle in front of you may enter the flow of traffic into a gap that only safely allows ONE vehicle to enter, additionally, if you just go, you are praying that the guy in front of you isnt being an idiot and pulling out at an unsafe time, you are putting you life in their hands.

Exactly,the other vehicles are irrelevant,it is aimed at a single vehicle coming to the stop sign.
One reason there will never be the rule back in NZ where you can turn left on a red light after coming to a stop then proceeding if safe to do so.
But i stopped 2/3/4/5 cars back and someone on the internet said it was ok

How hard is it to pull up to a sign saying Stop,looking and then proceeding when deemed safe for you to do so.

What about two motorcycles pulling up to a stop sign side by side,i don't think the rode code mentions that so it must be ok.

[scumdog]

Really?Well thats exactly what i got pinged for,line of cars at stop sign,he stopped i stopped,he went when clear so did i next thing the disco lights.SD you will know the stop sign i am on about,the one at the monument in Oamaru,visibility both ways aplenty.

Doh! PM sent

[Max Preload]

my understanding is that when EACH vehicle arrives at the front, and is at the sign, they MUST stop, when you are in the queue, (sp) you have not yet arrived at the stop sign, and therefore need to stop when you actually reach the sign.

Common misconception, but nope.

From Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (SR 2004/427) (as at 01 August 2008)

A driver approaching or entering an intersection on a roadway where the vehicles that are moving in the direction in which that driver is travelling are controlled by a stop sign at or near the intersection must—

(a) stop his or her vehicle before entering the path of any possible vehicle flow at such a position as to be able to ascertain whether the way is clear for the driver to proceed

The limit lines mean nothing.