Tip: What to do when you tuck the front.

[beyond]

Um, you know a lot more about this than me, but I thought front wheel braking in a corner was not done.


Steve

Yep, often done once you know what you are doing. It's called trail braking and depending on the type of bike you have, either front or rear or both is fine IF you know the traction limits of your bike and tyres.

For me, I rarely use the rear brake on my bike as it's heavy and thows a lot of it's weight to the front tyre. This allows me to brake very late into corners which the 1400 is excellent for.

The same rule applies to every bike though. In a straight line you have 0 lean and can brake 100%. BUT braking into a corner you MUST trade off braking power for grip..... trail braking.
e.g You enter a corner and are at 40% lean then you cannot use more than a maximum of 60% brake under ideal conditions or it's over.
If you are at 90% lean you only have 10% braking power available.

You must constantly be aware of the grip levels available under braking and vice versa and this comes with experience and knowing your bike and tyre combination.

The same appplies to acceleration when cornering. At 60% lean through a corner, you can only use a maxiumum of 40% throttle or again you overcome the grip levels of the bike. Once you come out of the corner say at 10% lean you can apply 90% throttle etc. Once you are fully upright you have 100% throttle available without upsetting the physics.

[SPman]

I just posted on the front as I have found recently that the Pilot Power on my front with a Pilot Road 2 on the rear is not such a good combo as I first thought.

.

That's interesting as I've got a Road 2 on the back and was going to put a Power on the front, of the XJR. So - go Road 2,s front and back, ya reckon?

I've lost the front on an FZR250 on Scenic Drive once.......not a pleasant experience....it was the Girlfriends bike and the overriding thought was "whatever you do, keep this bike upright...or else..." I think it was a patch of moss though, coz, once it hit some dry seal, she was all sweet again....

[cowpoos]

If you're Colin Edwards, you just hold it up on the elbow and knee (although that wasn't so much tucking the front as slipping off the seat!) Either way, it was a ripper piece of riding!.

Or do A pOO'S AND FARK IT UP!! --> http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24742

[TonyB]

One point- In my humble and possibly incorrect opinion, the 'sportier' the geometry of your bike, the quicker it will crash in a front end slide. Steep steering head angles and low trail numbers make for nice flickable handling, but they also make it harder to save the bike when it all starts to go wrong, because what steers quicker also crashes quicker

[beyond]

That's interesting as I've got a Road 2 on the back and was going to put a Power on the front, of the XJR. So - go Road 2,s front and back, ya reckon?

I've lost the front on an FZR250 on Scenic Drive once.......not a pleasant experience....it was the Girlfriends bike and the overriding thought was "whatever you do, keep this bike upright...or else..." I think it was a patch of moss though, coz, once it hit some dry seal, she was all sweet again....

Yeah mate, stick to PR2's all around on the heavier bikes. They are an awesome tyre, I'v never had an issue with them even when pushing hard

[beyond]

One point- In my humble and possibly incorrect opinion, the 'sportier' the geometry of your bike, the quicker it will crash in a front end slide. Steep steering head angles and low trail numbers make for nice flickable handling, but they also make it harder to save the bike when it all starts to go wrong, because what steers quicker also crashes quicker

You are quite right. Very fast reaction times are required and more so the sportier the bike you ride. As I mentioned in the first part of my post, there is very little you can do once she goes. You need to recognise the signs immediately but when they go, they go fast, so much so that you will probably be preparing to apex the corner and then find yourslf sliding down the road wondering why the world seems to be on a funny angle.

[Maki]

I never brake hard except when the bike is standing up and going in a straight line. Braking hard enough to "tuck" and chirp your front wheel while taking a corner sounds like a crazy thing to do. If it happens you can take it as a sure sign that you are pushing WAY too hard for the street. You are on the brink of bone crushing bike destroying disaster. Enjoy smoothness, rhythm and good lines on the road. If you want the ragged edge, then take it to the track.

Read "The Pace"

"Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long."

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fl...sch/index.html

[beyond]

I never brake hard except when the bike is standing up and going in a straight line. Braking hard enough to "tuck" and chirp your front wheel while taking a corner sounds like a crazy thing to do. If it happens you can take it as a sure sign that you are pushing WAY too hard for the street. You are on the brink of bone crushing bike destroying disaster. Enjoy smoothness, rhythm and good lines on the road. If you want the ragged edge, then take it to the track.

Read "The Pace"

"Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long."

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fl...sch/index.html

No argument there at all.
I merely posted to help those that find themselves in this situation and hopefully give them a few tips on what to do about it, because no matter how careful riders are, they are going to be faced with a corner braking situation at some stage in their motorcycling life.

[TonyB]

Read "The Pace"

"Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long."

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fl...sch/index.html

On the road yes, totally agree. On the track if you don't do it, you're screwed. It always amazes me watching the onboard shots with telemetry from the MotoGP- 40 to 50° lean angle while braking HARD, then over to 60°+++ for the apex. That would take phenominal skill.

Edit: Just read that article. He makes a lot of sense- great read and good advice!

[discotex]

Have saved a couple of front end slides on the track. Only lost one. Try to avoid it every happening on the road.

One thing you do learn on the track is how much more you can brake with the front while leaning over than you think you can.

[sharky]

Saw a clip on You Tube from Californian Superbike School that says when counter-steering, TO PICK THE BIKE UP AFTER THE TURN you should pull the bar towards you rather than push the opposing bar away from you, as it gives more control and also makes it easier to lift yourself back up onto the bike when you're hanging off to transfer weight. Give it a go it works bloody well and feels very natural. That is just a general racing tip and not specific to loosing the front.

And yeah, knee works well on the track. Don't really get it near the ground on the road so would be little help.

On my GSX-R600 I have PP 2CT front and PR2 rear, seems sweet to me. Had PP 2CT's both ends prior, still feels and rides similar, just wanting to get a few more miles out of them.

[jrandom]

"Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road..."

Horseshit.

[jrandom]

Yeah mate, stick to PR2's all around on the heavier bikes. They are an awesome tyre...

Agreed, but I still think you should try PP 2CTs front and rear on the 1400 sometime, like they were meant to be used. Say goodbye to front end pushing and unnecessary rear power drifts! PR2s are good tyres, but I'm never going back to them.

[cowpoos]

Horseshit.

+1 totally!!!!!!!!!