Bikes, 1990 vs 2000 vs 2009

[AllanB]

Yesterday (on the open road) I found a row of cars doing 10 kph due to the tourist van in front of them crawling along so one of them could lean out of the window to take photos. I'm thinking of packing a spare set of undies under my seat.

[koba]

154mph = FJR1300, 152mph = FJ1200 and 149mph = GTS 1000.

I know you can make the stats say anything but you have 2 mph to show for over 20 years development.

But you are on to it in that cat converters, noise and riders love of gadgets have to be dealt with by todays bike makers.

To be fair the FJ1200 was sold as a sports bike it just happened to be a fantastic sports/tourer and the later 17" wheel models got slower.

But I am still wary some of the marketing bullshit around modern bikes. They are better but not by as much a people think. Last year a mate brought an FJ in from Japan with only 12000 miles from new. If felt and handled almost like a new bike, so maybe new bikes are better because the switches and seat havent worn out yet!

But who buys a tourer based on its power anyway?

I guess we can say it really depends on the bike.

Sportsbikes are where power matters and thats where most of these incremental steps occur.

In some kind of bikes bikes changing them is bad, It is a good thing that suzuki churned out unchanged A100s for ages and ages.

When Craig Shirriffs got on the new 'blade and manfield he raced it with flash suspension but (so the rumour goes - I dont know for sure) the bike was otherwise standard.
He laid waste to the superbike field!
Sure, him being a a fster rider is also a factor but not THAT much!

[discotex]

It's not really fair to say the 09 600rr has 97 HP. It's the same engine as the 08 which puts out well over 105 at the crank.

The emissions regs (noise and content) are starting to bite our bikes now days. Take a look at this and it's pretty obvious something happens in the ECU/exhaust valve to stop the 09 screaming:


Taken from: http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-87967.html


To the OP's question - yes you can feel the difference. Maybe not in raw HP but the total package is different. The 07 ZX-6R is totally different to the 636 before it and I suspect the 09 ZX-6R will be totally different again.

[dipshit]

More importantly they don't paint bikes fluorescent pink or dayglow purple any more.

This has been one of the biggest improvements since the 90's.

[tigertim20]

yeah I get that the pc emissions rubbish is ruining some of the potential for development, I guess I just feel that, while you might feel some differences in general riding, with things like improved brakes etc, I just think that those little differences often dont really mean much unless you are on a track, I mean youre doing a 1,2 or 3oo km trip, does it really matter that you can brake 5-10 metres earlier for a corner?
I know the emissions are a prick for restricting HP, but I cant help but feel that they should be able to come up with a solution that meets emissions standards, AND increases HP. Better brakes etc will make you faster around a track, but on the road you are limited by the speed of the vehicles in front of you, and the availability of safe passing places. I just think that more raw power increases the number of places which you can safely get past. I mean, how many of you have been on a trip, and either done a passing manouvre, and thought afterwards, fuck, I didnt have the room/power I thought I might, or have seen a spot where you could have passed safely, if you had that little more power?
I guess what Im trying to say here is that I think in MY opinion (not tryna call anyone else wrong here!) that what is "real world" usefull on the road is much different than whats "real world" useful on the track.

[discotex]

I guess what Im trying to say here is that I think in MY opinion (not tryna call anyone else wrong here!) that what is "real world" usefull on the road is much different than whats "real world" useful on the track.

That's exactly why the 600rr and Daytona 675 are the best of the bunch.

Top end HP like the R6 is utterly useless around town or when passing. Who wants to drop the bike down a gear so you're at 14000 RPM to get power.

Both the 600rr and 675 have great top end HP but if you compare their torque curves you'll find they're making loads of power much earlier in the RPM range. This translates to more pickup in "normal" riding. Also handy on a track if you muff a corner or like me am just a little slow for the gearing on some corners.

That's where all the development has been lately (more torque without losing HP) and you REALLY feel it.

And yeah the cornering, suspension, and brakes are all noticeably better too.

Go take an 08 or 09 600rr out for a test ride

[breakaway]

meh.. Ive ridden the lot..none of my bikes have fuel injection for a reason...

What reason would that be?

[FROSTY:Me]

I know there are some people who want more and more HP but Im of the opinion that with the current (and as far as I can see future) state of our roads more power is becoming more and more about ego. The power is unusable in the real world.
Ive noticed too that modern bikes seem to be more frajile than older bikes.
On the track I dunno --but have the laptimes dropped in proportion to the increases in HP ?

[SARGE]

what reason would that be?

i can have a set of cv carbs stripped, cleaned and jetted in a little over an hour.. If i want more power at a certain rpm.. I just change the jets and needles ..i dont need a power commander and a degree in computer science to go fast .. I like getting a bit of grease under my nails and i have never known many modern bikes that can leave me for dead..


Simple really... Its a bike .. Not a video game .. Bikers can fix their own stuff without a laptop


maybe im just a dinosaur

[tigertim20]

More importantly they don't paint bikes fluorescent pink or dayglow purple any more.

This has been one of the biggest improvements since the 90's.

OI!!! Pink is sexy, (see attached) dont tell me you are so uncertain about your sexuality that you feel deeply challenged by a mere colour?????

[dipshit]

OI!!! Pink is sexy, (see attached) dont tell me you are so uncertain about your sexuality that you feel deeply challenged by a mere colour?????

Trust me, I don't mind girls in pink panties.

I just don't like bikes where the designer was obviously influenced by those 90's boy bands styles.

[tigertim20]

I just don't like bikes where the designer was obviously influenced by those 90's boy bands styles.

Care to show evidence of the designers taste in music? no?
So you have your taste, good for you, im more concerned with function before form, does what I want it to do, Im happy.
the threads about function, so perhaps someone would like to help the thread back on topic?

[MaxB]

For mine it is all about the bike. Not the age. It has to fit me and my needs. In the past I have traded my new bike for an older model because it was better for me. Function I guess.

Performance figures to me are just a guide, I stopped believing them ages ago. Or are bikes less efficient??? According to the marketing types we now need 185bhp to crack 300kmh whereas in 1989 you only needed 160hp to crack 320kmh/200mph on a BMW Luftmeister K100 turbo. Maybe the modern horses have asthma?

Is the whole aim of modern marketing is to make you feel like what you own is shit and that your only hope is to upgrade to the latest and greatest to find true happiness? Is a 2008 R1 for example really that much better than a 2006 model?

A good thing I reckon is the comeback of the big twin. From metric cruisers to tricked up Italians to 'see you in Bluff' BMWs, people are out there riding what makes them feel good rather than chasing some race replica fantasy.