Exemption: DENIED.

[BigB]

my wife got an excemption when she was doing shift work. She had a car liecence but I was the one using it 90% of the time. I say appeal, it was a hassle to get but made all the difference. She was about the same age as you at the time.

cheers

B

[Clockwork]

Hopefully you and another of similar ilk never meet head-on wrapped in you own smug superiorority...

That's unlikely to happen, I don't think I live in the same area.

[Ixion]

Your 1994 one? No, I don't think that's going to work. As someone said, I think it has to be done since you got your restricted - I'm pretty sure that bit is in the rules.

Richard

Only for under 25s. Over 25, the DDC can have been done anytime. Your 1994 certificate is still valid, there is no expiry in law. But you may have to argue, a lot. LTSA have a help desk for the tester people (a different one to the general public one). Tell them to ring that and speak to a senior person. Incidentally the bit about "The perforated part's been torn off so it's no longer valid" has no legal standing either. That is just an administrative convenience for LTSA and has no legal standing. In fact, the law does not even require you *have* a certificate, you just have to be able to prove you've done a course.

[rwh]

Only for under 25s. Over 25, the DDC can have been done anytime.

Interesting, I hadn't spotted that. The wording does suggest that it has to have been done since you turned 25, though.

If you're under 25 years old and you successfully complete an approved course, ...

(Factsheet 45)

Richard

[YLWDUC]

Interesting, I hadn't spotted that. The wording does suggest that it has to have been done since you turned 25, though.
(Factsheet 45)Richard

They want you to think that it must be done after you have sat your motorcycle licence, but of course, the Defensive Driving course is a 100% theory course that covers hazards, safe driving/riding attitudes etc.

When I applied to sit my full licence after 3 months, being over 25 and having completed the DDC (in 1995!) They said I'd have to apply for an exemption, so I did. Wrote how I've been a safe driver and rider, holding my learners M/Cycle for 3 years etc and the merits of the DDC and how they also apply to motorcycles. They eventually approved it, so this should mean the same for all those who go out and sit their motorcycle licenses after their drivers licenses.

[samgab]

They want you to think that it must be done after you have sat your motorcycle licence, but of course, the Defensive Driving course is a 100% theory course that covers hazards, safe driving/riding attitudes etc.

When I applied to sit my full licence after 3 months, being over 25 and having completed the DDC (in 1995!) They said I'd have to apply for an exemption, so I did. Wrote how I've been a safe driver and rider, holding my learners M/Cycle for 3 years etc and the merits of the DDC and how they also apply to motorcycles. They eventually approved it, so this should mean the same for all those who go out and sit their motorcycle licenses after their drivers licenses.

That sounds like a precedent has already been set, in your case.
You were in almost the same situation as me.
I had my class 6 learners for 6 years, before getting into riding properly.
I did my DDC in 1994.
I hope I don't have to apply for an exemption again, just a waste of another $22.50. Maybe I should get on the phone and give this Helen a call direct...

I cannot find anything in writing from an official source, or in legalese, that specifies an expiry time of the qualifications of a DDC.
When the plebs you get manning a counter or a phone say "no that can't be done" it's just because they don't know, and come up with an answer off the top of their head. The difficult part is fighting through all of that small-minded ignorance to get to the root of the matter: You're saying no, but where is that in writing, in the law or in your instructions that specify that is the answer?
If the fact sheet stated "The DDC must have been completed no more than [insert time frame] prior to sitting the full licence test" -- I'd accept that.

Oh, and by the way, DDC courses now include a practical section

[Forest]

Yes, you're right, that was probably the main thing.
I do have a car licence.
There are various reasons why it's better not to drive, but end of the day, when push comes to shove, I can drive in to work.
That, more than anything, was probably what made them decide it was merely a convenience thing.

I know it sucks to be denied the exemption, but I have to side with the LTSA lady.

The licensing exemptions were intended to reduce cases of genuine hardship. If you have a car license and access to a car, then you don't meet the necessary criteria.

[samgab]

Only for under 25s. Over 25, the DDC can have been done anytime. Your 1994 certificate is still valid, there is no expiry in law. But you may have to argue, a lot. LTSA have a help desk for the tester people (a different one to the general public one). Tell them to ring that and speak to a senior person. Incidentally the bit about "The perforated part's been torn off so it's no longer valid" has no legal standing either. That is just an administrative convenience for LTSA and has no legal standing. In fact, the law does not even require you *have* a certificate, you just have to be able to prove you've done a course.

Thanks for that info Ixion.
I hate the whole "you have to argue for it" part.
Things should not be so obtuse. Either it's valid, or it isn't, and that should be clearly specified somewhere.

---

Part of the trouble is these AA centres trying to do everything these days. You have the same people at the counter trying to handle all kinds of enquiries, from IRD, to maps, to insurance, to licensing, etc.
Two negative results of this:

1. The queues are insane.
2. It's difficult to find someone who is informed and competent to help

[xwhatsit]

That sounds like a precedent has already been set, in your case.
You were in almost the same situation as me.

There's no `precedents' or anything. It's not a legal case, there's no objective rules governing what is valid reasons for an exemption or not. The law is, you ride 250cc, no pillion, not after 10pm. There's a panel of people (not dickheads either, they're a small team of very reasonable and knowledgeable people) who assess each case individually on its own merits to see if it's reasonable for you to have an exemption to the law.

You have no cause to expect an exemption just because you think you're exceptional. They're not dummies. They know you've got a car licence. They're not there to cater to your whims to play with your new toy. They're there to enforce road safety, and at the end of the day you're a new rider with little experience. You can drive a car, so what's the great emergency? What's this terrible hardship of yours?

Now I think the 10pm curfew is a damn silly thing with no relation to road safety, personally. A good half of my kilometres would have been covered outside my licence conditions in this respect.

Nevertheless what's with this attitude of entitlement you have?

[Ixion]

Thanks for that info Ixion.
I hate the whole "you have to argue for it" part.
Things should not be so obtuse. Either it's valid, or it isn't, and that should be clearly specified somewhere.

---

Part of the trouble is these AA centres trying to do everything these days. You have the same people at the counter trying to handle all kinds of enquiries, from IRD, to maps, to insurance, to licensing, etc.
Two negative results of this:

1. The queues are insane.
2. It's difficult to find someone who is informed and competent to help

It is. Land Transport Rule (Driver Licensing) 1999.

Problem is that most LTSA staff have no understanding of the law, and prefer to make it up as they go along. Then get shitty if you point out that that is not actually what the law says.

[Ixion]

Interesting, I hadn't spotted that. The wording does suggest that it has to have been done since you turned 25, though.
(Factsheet 45)

Richard

Yes. I have never been quite sure of the situation where the DDC is taken when under 25, but applied after 25.

[YLWDUC]

Oh, and by the way, DDC courses now include a practical section

That's interesting, does this mean that once on your motorcycle licence you need to sit a Defensive Driving pratical course, or the approved course mentioned on Factsheet 28? Does it even exist? And will they answer my email?

[CookMySock]

The licensing exemptions were intended to reduce cases of genuine hardship.

Mine wasn't. I just asked for it and they gave it to me. The only hardship would have been not riding the new bike.

My guess is the ACC blowout has changed the exemption rules. Who has had a serious accident while on a GDLS exemption? I did. I didn't hurt myself though - nine lives all used up in one hit.

Steve

[Ragingrob]

If you're over 25 you should be able to use your past defensive driving course certificate absolutely fine. That's what I've been told by LTSA twice now.

[malfunconz]

man it was easier in my day , lets all time warp back to the seventies .