ACC whinge

[klingon]

So - Klingon beat AD335 - Victory is hers!

You know Max - you may have a (tiny) point.
...
Im sure you feel all warm inside knowing that you were able to find this $35 per week paragon of thrift and hold them up as a shining example to humble the arrogant AD345and his sweeping generalisations.

I am in awe.

Aaaawww don't take it all so personally! We were actually making these points to inform the discussion for everyone reading it, not as a personal victory over you.

In fact, the numbers you have estimated for my Volty above are seriously over-inflated. For example I'm flattered that you think my new fluoro gear cost $100 (it does look very stylish) but it actually cost $30 (and is a one-off cost).

Gear: I have two jackets! One I won in a competition, one is a summer mesh jacket that cost $250 (I bought it with birthday gift vouchers). My cordura trousers cost $120, gloves $30, helmet $200, boots $350. [I think my draggin jeans were $150 from the motomail outlet store but my memory may be incorrect.] The helmet will need to be replaced in a couple of years but the rest are all one-off expenses.

As for tyres, I got new ones when I first bought the bike in 2006, and haven't changed them since. Little commuter bikes don't go through tyres the way big bikes do.

Insurance $100 per year

Maintenance - well I rebuilt the bike after a major melt-down late last year. Bought a GN for $700, paid a mechanic to swap the engines over and sold the remains of both bikes for parts. That was a once-only event. Normal yearly maintenance would be closer to $100 than $1100.

If I didn't have the bike I wouldn't just have to pay for daily commuting on public transport - I would also be going places in the evenings and weekends, and would have to take a bus *shudder* to visit my mother in Hamilton.

None of this takes into account the time I save by taking a bike instead of a bus, and the fact that on a bike I have a fairly accurate idea of the time I will reach my destination. On a bus I would need to allow a margin of error of about an hour if I wanted to be at a meeting on time.

[Motig]

So does anyone know what the increase in ACC is going to be on motorbikes ? Sure to be far more than the $30 odd dollars for a car.

[motorbyclist]

It's an insurance premium. Like most insurance premiums the vast bulk of payers never make claims that cover their premium.

very true

Otherwise it don't work.
Riding a bike is a choice - not a necessity. There is no rational reason for choosing a bike over any other form of tranpsort other than "I want to".

to start off, owning more than one bike is a choice, and very rarely a necessity.

but for a large portion of us, a bike is the only viable mode of transport, and for most 'necessity' riders their gear is a bare minimum as is their 'recreational petrol bill' as i like to call it, to reflect the abject poverty some are subjected to, often while studying. unfortunately this makes them more likely to be hurt in an accident, and an accident usually involves hitting a car


meanwhile, further up the economic ladder, there are still 'necessity riders' buy cost:

my old man CAN and occasionally does have to drive his ute to work, but if he doesn't need to he'll take his vfr800. this saves him over $100 a week, which can then go back into supporting his student offspring.

myself, I am a full time engineering student (ie will actually give back to economy with my degree) and really have little time even to work a part time job with reliable hours. My parents earn just enough to make me ineligible for a student allowance, despite them supporting two tertiary students and one high schooler. as such, i live at home, rent free. unfortunately This means I catching the bus is a lost cause, and catching the train means a DRIVE to the nearest train station (or a few stages down the line as it's cheaper to drive than train), followed by delays in the system, and HOUR on the train and $5.70 each way, then have to walk ten minutes to actually get to the university.
If i drove to uni it would cost less and even in peak traffic take less time, BUT i'd get raped by 6 -12 $/hr parking in the city.
If i ride my 400, it takes 30 minutes in peak traffic or 20 minutes in flowing traffic, and about 1 L of petrol each way. I can park on campus most days, right outside where i need to be.

SO, for me, a casual worker/full time student, I face either $3 and 60minutes a day for travel, plus work travel, OR $12, at least 150 minutes, and require someone to drop me at the train station or risk parking my own vehicle (with acc rego etc ).
travel time is time i could spend studying or working, currently valued at $15 an hour after tax, and there is NO available bus route to within 15 minutes walk of one of my jobs, and i need my bike gear for my other job anyway.

so, while i could take the bus/train/drive, i'd have to be bloody retarded to do so. i tell my friends this regularly. they are all rapidly getting scooters/bikes. it's fun riding in groups on our commute, and makes things safer.
a carpool would be just as good, but we all operate to wildly different schedules.

lets look at another case: my brother who was working full time and is now studying full time in a 9-month CAD course (job lined up for afterwards). He flats in mt albert, and rides an r6. while he was working he lost his licence to speed - he went from a 5 minute commute to a 30 minutes commute plus 15 minute walk plus a tenfold increase in cost. now he's studying a bus is again such a ridiculous proposistion, and ont he bike he can take his girlfriend as a pillion to keep costs down further.

again because their parents earn too much they can't get a benefit (despite both pairs of parents supporting several students), they're students so can't go on the dole, and yet running an r6 is the only financially viable solution

another case: my youngest brother, 5th form. For him, the only difference is that of a 5 minute commute by bike, or an HOUR by bus. I know which one i'd choose.

[The Pastor]

rego on the fuel costs is really good.

if fuel went up 10c cos of the regos, you'd have to do a shit load of kms before it comes close to having paid the same ammount as the rego fee. Then most of us have more than 1 registerd vechile (i have 3 atm) so with the rego on the fuel you only pay for what you use. For me to spend the $900 in rego i'd have to do 135 000k a year to match that (on 10c a L and 15Km/L). And if i dont drive for a month inbetween, i dont pay for it!

Its brilliant.

[The Pastor]

then again i dont actually pay my regos, so if it went on fuel costs i'd be forced to pay more.... but it'd make insurance alot better.

[Motig]

Just googled to try to find motorcycle ACC levy- nothing. But interestingly one of the reccomendations from business new zealand was that the govt remove the cross subsidy of car ACC payers towards motorbikes. Grief if that came in we'ed be priced of the road.

[MaxB]

Uncle Helen's junta made it so that all bike accidents are paid from the rego component for bikes. A large proportion of claims happen via unregisterted bikes. Like when little Johnny busts his arm jumping sand dunes. Official race organisers have to levy riders for ACC within the entry fees but the average Joe pays nothing towards his off road thrills and spills on an unregistered bike.

People are pinged in other ways so the Average Joe will pay into other accounts for his ACC contribtuions but I look forward to the day when my car rego includes all the lawn tractor and go-kart accidents caused by unregistered 4 wheeled vehicles. Or road registered bikes only pay for on road accidents.

[MarkH]

There is no rational reason for choosing a bike over any other form of tranpsort other than "I want to".

So not true!

I chose to switch from commuting around Auckland in a car to doing it on a bike because it saves me a huge amount of time. I am self employed and travel around Auckland quite a lot during the day, the traffic can be VERY bad at times. I believe this is a perfectly rational reason for my decision and therefore good proof that your statement is incorrect.

[xwhatsit]

I've gone from spending most (and I mean most, i.e. more than half) of my wages on transport to and from work and uni on the bus, to having it now as a fairly small factor in my expenses. I can save money now (although, I spend it on things like fancy clip-ons and mirrors and headlights, which is self-defeating -- but still discretionary). And of course the massive time savings and ability to spend extra time at work, earning more money, because I don't have to catch the last bus at 10.40pm.

It's hardly a choice, well it is of course, but right now I'd deem it economically impossible to go back to catching the bus without a big drop in lifestyle quality (i.e. baked beans for tea instead of being able to go out with the missus to a restaurant every once in a while), especially as since I stopped using it the price of bus fares has gone from $10 a trip to more like $15.

I find your figures extortionate -- if I had to spend that sort of money I wouldn't be able to afford it. My insurance is half, I don't wear fluoro, I bought a second-hand set of leathers, I maintain the bike myself and tyres are $120 each and last for 20-30,000kms. I get 28km/L.

AD345, while you might ride the bike purely as a toy (I'm making that assumption from the way you write and your choice of motorcycle), there's a lot of us for whom it is a necessary and important tool in our daily life. It serves a serious and important function. It's not a trivial `lifestyle choice' in the slightest. For sure I go for weekend rides when I have the time but that's additional discretionary spending, and fairly cheap fun at that compared to going to the pictures.

On topic, if we only paid one ACC levy instead of one on each bike, to make up the shortfall in total income, they'd have to raise the ACC levies overall to compensate. So while the guys with heaps of bikes would be better off, those with only one (and no interest in getting more) would be stung. GiJoe1313 with his >9000 bikes is subsidising the rest of us. Thanks mate!

[davereid]

Like anything, if the price gets too expensive, people will stop buying.

Thats a danger for ACC.

Lots of the bikers on here with several machines will simply ride their favorite, and leave the others on hold.

ACC will still have the same risk, as the number of miles being ridden hasn't changed, but they have halved their income.

Its already happened in the davereid household, ACC will only get a fraction of last years revenue from me as I have put low usage vehicles on hold, or farm rego.

[motorbyclist]

Just googled to try to find motorcycle ACC levy- nothing. But interestingly one of the reccomendations from business new zealand was that the govt remove the cross subsidy of car ACC payers towards motorbikes. Grief if that came in we'ed be priced of the road.

Uncle Helen's junta made it so that all bike accidents are paid from the rego component for bikes. A large proportion of claims happen via unregisterted bikes. Like when little Johnny busts his arm jumping sand dunes. Official race organisers have to levy riders for ACC within the entry fees but the average Joe pays nothing towards his off road thrills and spills on an unregistered bike.

People are pinged in other ways so the Average Joe will pay into other accounts for his ACC contribtuions but I look forward to the day when my car rego includes all the lawn tractor and go-kart accidents caused by unregistered 4 wheeled vehicles. Or road registered bikes only pay for on road accidents.

lets not forget that a sizeable chunk of motorcycle accidents are generally caused by four wheeled vehicles anyway

[RocKai]

I'm intrigued. What say you AD? I'm about to switch from driving my cage to riding a bike this weekend. Is it a choice? Yes and No. Car just simply cost me too much. You don't wanna start with the figures. Bike = Bad hair, weather dependent...etc. But I'd rather smoke those dumb ass boy racers in my 2 wheels then having to take it in my 4 wheels. Then again, I'm from a 2 wheels 3rd world country so 2 wheels will always be my choice, be it entertainment or necessity.

[mikeey01]

AD. I think you missed my point. I don't begrudge paying the f'kin' levy. I just begrudge paying it on every bike I own.

I ride whenever I get the chance and that won't change because I own one or ten bikes. There's no justification for my being charged a separate levy on each bike (or car for that matter). The risk simply isn't proportional to the number of vehicles owned.

I hear ya, I hear ya.

It's a pain in the arse and there is no way out of simple paying, over and over again on many rego's.

I use too share the plates / rego around... no know ever knew the difference.

[Pixie]

I wouldn't be as disgusted with the ACC system if they ran it like an insurance company and didn't pay for safety ads on TV,contribute to road policing etc.Do you know they were a significant sponsor of the Pacifica Festival?- with our levies!

And the inability to sue those responsible for accidents and unsafe conditions,
is the reason NZTA can get away with the atrocious condition of our roads.
You wouldn't get them using cut-price construction techniques if they stood to get their arses sued when vehicles run off the road.

[klingon]

...Do you know they were a significant sponsor of the Pacifica Festival?- with our levies!...

Are you sure that's the Accident Compensation Corporation? Not Auckland City Council?