Calling all suspension gurus

[Robert Taylor]

Arguing on the internet is like running at the special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

Got to agree with that and what you have relayed through successive posts. If I may add a couple of points because I think so much is dictated by people wanting to compromise excessively because they are often not so willing to pay out money to achieve the correct result!

1) SAG RATIO Both static and 1G readings are just as important as one another! Sometimes you can achieve a better result for yourself by testing a spring rate either side of the supposed ideal and the ideal can vary from track to track. In road racing with the top riders spring rate selection is ultimately most subservient to best laptimes and the amount of tyre degradation for any given number of laps. Ditto for valving, every track is different be it sealed course or dirt

2) CHEAP OILS Dont skimp on oil and who really knows or not if KTM oil ( made by Motorex or whomever )doesnt have a specific bucket of additives by request? On a typical motocross track the suspension undergoes 17,000 compression cycles EVERY lap so oil selection and stability is VERY important. We stock and sell LOTS of genuine Ohlins oil and frankly it is the very very best and we use in Japanese shocks as well. It is brewed specifically for Ohlins by a state owned Norwegian company Statoil. I am guessing that it is also the most expensive suspension oil on the NZ market at $58 per litre inclusive. But we sell lots of it.

[barty5]

Hell I only ask a question (never tried to start some sort of arguement) what was so special about the (ktm oil ) as no other brand labels where mentioned a simple the oil we use is motorex of which ktm import would have done which would have also explained purchasing form them aswell instead of an oil CO. Instead you get a whole pile of techno gragon about research which was not what i was interested in. Then we have to start hassling the special Olympician (hell they have enough of there own problem they dont need us takin digs at them).

[Robert Taylor]

Hell I only ask a question (never tried to start some sort of arguement) what was so special about the (ktm oil ) as no other brand labels where mentioned a simple the oil we use is motorex of which ktm import would have done which would have also explained purchasing form them aswell instead of an oil CO. Instead you get a whole pile of techno gragon about research which was not what i was interested in. Then we have to start hassling the special Olympician (hell they have enough of there own problem they dont need us takin digs at them).

Regardless I am sure there are a number of readers who recognise the spirit in which the info was given, to provide info and provoke thought. Nothing sinister or whatever

[camchain]

One thing for certain. Most of us are pretty good with frequent engine oil changes but suspension oil gets neglected (and pounded). I cringe every time I put my hand on hot shock reservoir and think of the rotten state my shock oil must be in. Wish it was easy to change. Do nitrogen bladders need recharging as well? Maybe when suspension specialists start importing Oh Lin's Lucky Sky Cloud brand oil/parts I'll be able to afford a proper service job.

[barty5]

Regardless I am sure there are a number of readers who recognise the spirit in which the info was given, to provide info and provoke thought. Nothing sinister or whatever

No im sure your right but i was only after a simple answer to what i thought was a simple question.

[Robert Taylor]

No im sure your right but i was only after a simple answer to what i thought was a simple question.

We may all like it to be simple but its not.

[Robert Taylor]

One thing for certain. Most of us are pretty good with frequent engine oil changes but suspension oil gets neglected (and pounded). I cringe every time I put my hand on hot shock reservoir and think of the rotten state my shock oil must be in. Wish it was easy to change. Do nitrogen bladders need recharging as well? Maybe when suspension specialists start importing Oh Lin's Lucky Sky Cloud brand oil/parts I'll be able to afford a proper service job.

Nitogen under pressure at 10 to 14 bar migrates through the bladder into the oil, much like a car tyre leaks/ bleeds off pressure into the atmosphere. This areates the oil very quickly and detracts from the performance and induces fade more readily. Despite what Paul Thede from Race Tech will tell you there is an over-riding reason for widespread use of bladders on mass produced shocks, COST. You simply do not have to have a perfectly round and smooth finished bore to accept a low friction dividing gas piston such as you will find in high end dampers such as Ohlins, WP and Penske.
Technically the moment you pick up your new Japanese motox bike off the showroom floor the oil is already well aereated. For optimum performance the oil should be changed every 10 hours. While we are all mindful of cost considerations its not a great idea to skimp on oil cost and therefore quality and stability of performance.

[Reckless]

thanx reckless, i think you pretty much nailed it.

Shit all these good suspension guru's on here and no-ones corrected my post and explanation!
Jeepers what Danger has been teaching me must have sunk in (or no ones read it) LOL!!!

No I'm sure your right but i was only after a simple answer to what i thought was a simple question.

I think your getting applying std engine oil practice to very specialist Suspension stuff Barty, that's why you got Danger telling you exactly why he uses what he does with Robert backing him up.

When I was racing the kart I had a chat with a chemist from Shell (about the time I bought that new YZ250 engine off you Robert). I was trying to find something that would mix with Avgas, so not having to use toluene as a mixing agent, no joy there so went to Methanol. But during that conversation I he did say that oils packed and labeled for turbo's, diesels or good for this type of car or that etc was exactly the same oil packaged/labeled differently for different markets. That was a few years ago now though, whether its still done this way is up to you to decide! So I think your theory barty is correct! I think the error was applying it to a specialist area like suspension!

Nuff said! topic closed!!!!!