Recession????

[davereid]

The recession is real enough, but to a certain extent NZ is isolated from it.

The collapse of Lehmanns Bank et.al took trillions of dollars out of the worlds economy and without money, we simply can't buy stuff. Which means the fellow making it doesn't have a job, nor does the fellow packaging it, shipping it, retailing it or fixing it.

N.Z. doesn't export many durables, this means we still have stuff to export that people need.

Or to put it another way, if you work at the GM factory, and you think you will lose your job next month, you may not buy that new plasma TV, cellphone or light truck - you will simply hold on to the one you already have.

But you will still eat dairy products, lamb and beef, and want to treat the missus to a nice bottle of chardonnay.

[trump-lady]

I know there is a recession going on... my question is, do you feel its as bad as its being portrayed for us here in New Zealand, and are we being laid off etc for the reason they are telling us.

For example....Are cuts to gov services here in NZ in fact a legit consequence of the recession or is it an easy way for those in power to enforce what they have wanted to do for a while and label it a "recession". Because were all buying into the "recession" we are more likely to accept changes we wouldnt have before.



Are we buying into this recession and "hegemony" floating around and there for accepting it causing us to be blinded to other things happening under the veil of the "recession".

[davereid]

Its commonly thought that Governments control money supply through the reserve bank etc. Thats true for cash, but in fact most of the worlds money supply is not cash, its credit.

The private banking system, private individuals and corporations are actually the source of our money supply, and it has always been that way.

Thats why governments have to borrow money just like everyone else.

Its also why we can be reasonably sure that the current problem hasn't been deliberately engineered to benefit any particular group of people, particularly banks, as it is working very much against them.

The US and UK are actually adopting policies that ultimately come from Social Credit, and are very dangerous on banks.

Social Credit argued that in a finite world, with finite resources, charging interest on loans was doomed to fail, as it always required the world wealth to be increasing if the loan was to be repaid.

I never quite understood what you motive to loan money would be under a social credit system would be, but we are going to find out !

Social Credit argued that if if you had $1000, and the government took $200 off you in tax that you only had $800 to spend. And if the government were using the money that they had taken from you to pay loan interest then you had a bad deal.

The theory was that if the government never borrowed the money it would never have to pay the interest.

All the government had to do was print the money it needed. Of course inflation would rob you of spending power, but as long as you ended up with $800 of spending power you had lost nothing.

This is what we are now seeing in the US and UK. Interest rates are now 0% and the government is printing the money it needs.

Massive inflation must result, and banks must be increasingly marginal - after all, at 1% interest a bank has to loan 10x more money than it had to loan at 10% to just stand still.

[Headbanger]

The cuts to the Gov services is because they are cash eating whores, It needed to be done even if there was no recession, Its too damn easy for them to mismanage some body else's money when they can just stick their hands out for more. That crap has to stop (pity it has taken running out of money to cause it to stop). The money I have seen wasted by Government departments could only be considered criminal.

That aside, We have priced a few million dollars of work so far this year, 90 percent of the projects haven't got under way as the banks won't lend the money to the developers, There are a shitload of builders, painters, electricians, plumbers etc etc who won't have a shit show in hell of buying the wife a bottle of Chardonnay or feeding the kids any Lamb.

[trump-lady]

I read that 5 times and still dont get it

So thats why what is happening is happening now..... but how will it ever be fixed?

[trump-lady]

The cuts to the Gov services is because they are cash eating whores, It needed to be done even if there was no recession, Its too damn easy for them to mismanage some body else's money when they can just stick their hands out for more. That crap has to stop (pity it has taken running out of money to cause it to stop). The money I have seen wasted by Government departments could only be considered criminal.

That aside, We have priced a few million dollars of work so far this year, 90 percent of the projects haven't got under way as the banks won't lend the money to the developers, There are a shitload of builders, painters, electricians, plumbers etc etc who won't have a shit show in hell of buying the wife a bottle of Chardonnay or feeding the kids any Lamb.

I agree, there has to be accountability...was just an example.

Point for me is then SAY thats why your doing it. Dont hide under the recession mask. I can see that also but the majority will be ...oh ok its cause of the recession. Im not the smartest person and rarely read newspapers but it makes me wonder what else is hiding under that recession mask for New Zealanders

Your second point highlights my origional post. middle class are the ones who will be experiencing huge change and be hit hardest cause the poor were never able to buy lamb for the kids etc..... and the rich will still do it but not as often

[Headbanger]

True enough, Except many of the existing "poor" seem to love the smokes, beer and vids. When it comes to food then buying and cooking lamb is no where near as convenient as a massive bucket of KFC.

[Ixion]

This is what we are now seeing in the US and UK. Interest rates are now 0% and the government is printing the money it needs.

.

I seem to remember this being done before. Didn't work.

[Edbear]

I seem to remember this being done before. Didn't work.

Yeah, funny that... Maybe it'll work this time...?

[Korumba]

I have been in the States and Europe since July last year, they are hurting bigtime.....but life goes on, we went through the same shit in NZ (and worldwide) from 87 to 91. This is just another cycle.

How is the kissing of the mirrors going????

[Edbear]

I have been in the States and Europe since July last year, they are hurting bigtime.....but life goes on, we went through the same shit in NZ (and worldwide) from 87 to 91. This is just another cycle.

How is the kissing of the mirrors going????

If you listen to the commentators, this isn't "just another cycle". This is a situation they're saying the world has not faced before and there are no precedents to use as models.

Allan Bollard, according to Allan Freeth, has said that no-one, ie: the bankers, pollies and CEO's, knows what to do.

We're seeing whole countries collapsing. The other day, it was noted that the Fed has so far put $US300b into AIG and will probably put more as if AIG goes down, the whole world goes down. Think about that... the world's financial system is such an intertwined house of cards that one company - albeit a huge one - can collapse it.

It's not just the US that's printing money in a desperate attempt to prop things up either.

[doc]

It's simple capitalism. The greedy ones have sucked too much out of the equation and we are just going thru a rebalancing phase. FFS no one earns 4 mil then needs bonuses. Unfortunately us minions feel more pain.
It's all about "Trickle up' NOT "Trickle down'.
Which means those at the bottom have to have more discrencionary income to spend before those at the top can afford to spend on income producing enterprises. At the moment we have stopped spending.

Fark hope that made sence

[discotex]

So thats why what is happening is happening now..... but how will it ever be fixed?

It's a funny thing this one. No-one really knows

We've never had such wholesale lending and re-packaging of debts into securities before.

Basically the whole system has worked on the idea that these securities were actually worth something. Now we've worked out some of them are actually worth worse than nothing

Suggest you check this out... It's farkin funny but true. Click the full-screen button to make it easier to read.

http://www.slideshare.net/tadfad/sub...n-presentation

[puddytat]

Its just a prelude to whats to come.....Armageddon

[Genestho]

To pay our debts off over and over, we were warned that the housing was going to peak its cycle.
And the warning signs were there nearly two years ago in the US when home owners were coming off low interest rates and landing on much higher.
The mortgagee sales were coming thick and fast.
As said ..this happened after the wall street collapse in '87, although there seems to be a little desperation this time round..an understatment.
Middle class have always suffered.

Id also like to point out its not just greed at high levels, banks didnt force people to remortgage homes to get the flash cars and material possesions that we "must have"....its stupidity, people forgot the old values of saving up and buying consumables.
People maxing their credit cards. Spending more than they earned.

Let it be another of lifes lessons....

And, if you heeded the warnings, and have a sack of cash, spend it wisely as this is the time for bargains!!!!