Moral dilemma -advice please

[HenryDorsetCase]

What I really wanna say is "Go away, learn to ride propperly then come back for a grunty bike if you are still keen"

I would love to sell you this bike but I wont, for two reasons:

1. I am not allowed to because you do not have the appropriate class of licence, and when you fall off it, which I think you will, it could come back to me, particularly if you are injured or killed; and

2. I dont think you have the skills. How about we see about getting you some skills, at this course or do this trackday or something like that.


Worst case scenario: he goes off somewhere else buys a big bike and kills himself, but your conscience is clear.

best case scenario: he listens, gets some skills and you have a customer for life, which hopefully will be long and fruitful.

Next question.

[ManDownUnder]

No sorry mate I will NOT sell him the bike.
If he goes somewhere else I can't stop him but Im not selling him a big bike.

And my total and utter respect for you on that! Don't question that for a second.

Then all you can do is explain your point of view. Don't sugar coat it - put it in context instead. Tight economic times, he should be very aware everyone's doing what they can to get by and of course you'd dearly love him to buy all the machinery off you that he can afford... but you're not going to sell him THAT bike - because it'll possibly kill him and you've seen enough people die already.

It's then his choice - buy the smaller bike off you... or not.

[Ecclesnz]

Firstly I have huge respect for Frosty for thinking about what is best for his customer, not what's best for his pocket.

I can understand the huge appeal of wanting big fast bike. However there are plenty of small fast bikes too. Why not recommend one fo the smaller bikes, let him try it for a whort time (3 days say) and take him out for a ride during that time so he can see what all can be done on the little pocket rockets.

ALso why not offer him a good trade in deal when he gets his full as an incentive to go with the legal option at this stage?

In all honesty I don't know the size of your business and if either option is one that is financially viable, however just providing a couple of options from a different perspective.

[CookMySock]

You're a good bloke Frosty, but you can't save the world from itself, bro. You could tell him "the price of that bike just went up a grand."

In the end, cash is king mate. I'd take his money, then I would give him the lecture "wreck it at the first roundabout and its not my problem, AGREED? Good. Maim yourself on it and its not my problem? Goood. Add a few scary stories of your own, then offer his money back to him. If he is adamant, then he will either buy it from you or from some one else. Might as well be you. Then I'd do the paperwork, and then straight-up tell him he's a fucken idiot, and tell him to fuck off.

I think it is up to you. Can you bear seeing this young fella in the headlines tomorrow? No? Theres your answer then.

Steve

[Mystic13]

We still don't know how big the bike is and for me there is a line between a GS550 and a GSXR1000.

Having said that it's not our place to sit and decide what is right or wrong for another person. Yeah I know that this forum often takes the other stance.

I guess for each of us there's a line and for me a bigger bike with some lessons would be okay but a rally big bike would be a no.

There's a lot of info missing like how old the guy is. So without knowing the full situation it's hard to make a call. But for me the line isn't down at the sell him a "250 or smaller" thing.

Some here are taking the view that you're selling a machine that he'll kill himself on. The other view is you're selling him a machine that he'll discover the wonders of riding on.

Frosty isn't selling. We don't get to know what his line is. Just that this bigger bike and the age and skill of the kid crossed the line for him.

[FROSTY:Me]

Legally you can sell him anything he wants. It is really not your role to do anything else - that is up to the police. You seem to have informed him and that is where your role stops.

Are you asking for advice to sell it and therefore you can justify by saying but they said thats ok ... or for others to say not sell it and then you can say .. I didn't make the sale on advice of others.

Its called using your own balls and business sense - not getting others to justify your own decisions - as that is a short way to run a business into the ground - and yes I know its been a year but most small businesses live to a total of two - five.

Im asking for advice on how to say NO in a nice way
Im asking the advice here because there are a lot of younger Bikers in here. Their prospective is the prospective Im asking for
Th quote myself
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

Quite franklY I dont give a shit about my "role" I wont sell him the bike in good concience.

[FROSTY:Me]

I would love to sell you this bike but I wont, for two reasons:

1. I am not allowed to because you do not have the appropriate class of licence, and when you fall off it, which I think you will, it could come back to me, particularly if you are injured or killed; and

2. I dont think you have the skills. How about we see about getting you some skills, at this course or do this trackday or something like that.


Worst case scenario: he goes off somewhere else buys a big bike and kills himself, but your conscience is clear.

best case scenario: he listens, gets some skills and you have a customer for life, which hopefully will be long and fruitful.

Next question.

Thank you

[Nasty]

Im asking for advice on how to say NO in a nice way
Im asking the advice here because there are a lot of younger Bikers in here. Their prospective is the prospective Im asking for
Th quote myself
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

Quite franklY I dont give a shit about my "role" I wont sell him the bike in good concience.

I hope that is good conscience ... its simple ... you say I won't sell it to you. If you don't want to sell it don't. Don't expect to see him again ... and don't expect to sell anything to any of his friends .. because you are not going to get those future sales either.

ts not about saying no politely as you can't. Just gut the shit and don't bother sugering the pill - cos to most young people that in itself will fuck them off.

[ducatilover]

Don't sell him the bike. You may get a reputation as "the dodgy learner smuggler" or something to that effect. I did what that young chap is doing and I have to put up with a lot of bodily shortcomings now. He may not be as lucky as me, you might be able to help him realise it's a dumb idea and the more expensive 250 is puuurrrrfect for him

[Blackshear]

Quite frankly I dont give a shit about my "role" I wont sell him the bike in good concience.

Are you able to refer him to someone else?
Did you ask WHY he wanted a bigger bike?
If the answer is 'cause they're faster and I'd look cooler', then you know pretty damn well he's gonna die down the first straight he gets to.

"Look, kid. You look like a real pretty fella. If I sell you this bike and you die, this will bare on me for a few years to come. How about we go out for a ride sometime, then I'll sell ya the bike?'
If he says naw, I wannit. Then... Well... You are a business man

[Mikkel]

Im asking for advice on how to say NO in a nice way
Im asking the advice here because there are a lot of younger Bikers in here. Their prospective is the prospective Im asking for
Th quote myself
Him buying that bike off me is not an option but I just can't figure out how to sugar the pill. Ive already told him about licence requirements etc.

Just tell him no and explain why that is your decision.

If he's a good bastard he'll understand your concern - whether he agrees with it or not - and there will be no hard feelings.

If he isn't a good bastard no amount of sugaring the pill is going to make him happy anyway and you should just be happy to not have to deal with a problematic customer in the future.

[MSTRS:Me]

OK, Frosty has said he won't sell a larger-than-legal bike to this young fella. Good.
He also has said that he doesn't know how to say no, in a way that won't upset this young wannabe.
The thing is, no matter what or how you say no, it is the no that is more likely to piss this kid off. That's his problem, not yours Frosty.
Is he some shady character, who is likely to come back 'after hours'? Or is there some other reason for not wanting to upset him?

[prettybillie]

What I really wanna say is "Go away, learn to ride propperly then come back for a grunty bike if you are still keen"

This is the best way to say it.....we don't need anymore statistics on the road

[FROSTY:Me]

Is he some shady character, who is likely to come back 'after hours'? Or is there some other reason for not wanting to upset him?

Nasty pretty well covered it off. I'm wanting a way to phrase it that means I loose the sale not the customer and the referal business.
Its no more or less than that

The very fact I'm posting on here I guess shows it has me stumped for an answer.

Just to give you a mental image of his riding -My 10 year old rides better than he did.

[Mom]

FROSTY, just tell him you won't sell him the bike because it is not appropriate for his skill and experience level. Explain that while you have no legal reason for not selling him the bike, your concience dictates that you dont as you would feel responsible should something happen to him.

Offer him a buy back option on the smaller bike, something along the lines of, you go off on this, keep it for 6 months and do a RRRS course or a rider skills course and get some experience under your belt. Bring the bike back to me in similar condition then you will take it back, less a reasonable allowance for wear and tear and use the money towards the purchase of another one. That is of course called a trade in, but you can couch it a bit differently.

You get a sale of the more suitable bike, he gets the message that you "care" about his welfare and he comes back to you to buy his bigger dream bike later on. He also tells all his mates you are a good guy. Win, win all round.