Electric Bikes - Would you buy one?

[James Deuce]

1/3 rd brain but producing 3 x the talk.......um sorry that should be torque.

4 pages is this thread, P1, mostly nay sayers...P2 mostly no, a couple of may and a couple of yes....p3 some no, some may, and some yes. P4 most may or yes with lots of positives...that says to me that the people who take the time to consider things a little, tend to think positive about electric vehicals, where as the early posters......

I'm allowed to say they don't appeal, because they don't. People are also allowed to have other opinions. From my perspective they are less green, have less range, and no aural connecting element, so I'm not interested.

You can call me stupid if you want, but electric vehicles are not, and never will be a replacement for IC powered vehicled, simply because they have lengthy recharge periods and for me (note that) no emotional appeal at all. I rather spend the time on public transport reading a book.

[dipshit]

You can call me stupid if you want, but electric vehicles are not, and never will be a replacement for IC powered vehicled, simply because they have lengthy recharge periods and for me (note that) no emotional appeal at all. I rather spend the time on public transport reading a book.

Shortsighted people also said that these newfangled automobiles will never be a mainstream replacement for horse-drawn carriages.

And the US military once thought that the new emerging field of aviation would have no useful benefits to them.

[Pixie]

I'm allowed to say they don't appeal, because they don't. People are also allowed to have other opinions. From my perspective they are less green, have less range, and no aural connecting element, so I'm not interested.

You can call me stupid if you want, but electric vehicles are not, and never will be a replacement for IC powered vehicled, simply because they have lengthy recharge periods and for me (note that) no emotional appeal at all. I rather spend the time on public transport reading a book.

Ultracapacitors will recharge in the time it takes to fill a vehicle's tank

[robo555]

Not immediately. But once they get the charging time and range sorted out, the instant power seems quite appealing, and being quiet is not a bad thing either.

[robo555]

Ultracapacitors will recharge in the time it takes to fill a vehicle's tank

Imagine not having to wait hours for your laptop or cellphone to charge up.

[insane1]

try the vextrix bfore you say no cant go to far 100km bfore recharge but instant grunt.

[Mikkel]

It is true that there are issues in regards to range and re-"fuelling" - hydrogen fuel cells goes a long way to sort out the latter of the problems and there's currently being invested a lot of money on research into hydrogen storage to solve the former for hydrogen powered transportation.

Battery powered electrical vehicles are very viable for around the town transportation where you can just plug it into the grid whenever you park up and you aren't likely to do 200 km in one leg of your journey.

From a performance perspective electrical motors are a dream. All of the finicky electronics that goes towards traction control, fuel-efficiency and power will be much more efficient and are much easier to implement on an electric motor. As has been said, electric motors makes maximum torque from 0 RPM upwards are lighter and requires less maintenance. You shouldn't even need a gearbox...
Too easy you say? Well, maybe - on the other hand hasn't the development of IC powered vehicles been about making them more and more efficient, faster, better and yet easier to operate?

If you miss the soundtrack (and I'm sure most of us will) I guess you can just stick a couple of pieces of cardboard into the spokes like we did with our bicycles in days of yore. Or get an MP3 player. Or just enjoy the sound of the wind... On the other hand, some electric motors sounds quite cool - in a turbine kind of way - as they spool up past 30,000 RPM.

Still, I very much hope that we won't run out of baby velociraptor oil before I feel ready to retire. However, I wouldn't mind having both a cool electric and an awesome petrol motorbike in my garage.

[James Deuce]

It is true that there are issues in regards to range and re-"fuelling" - hydrogen fuel cells goes a long way to sort out the latter of the problems and there's currently being invested a lot of money on research into hydrogen storage to solve the former for hydrogen powered transportation.

Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy carrier. Current refining technology means more energy is spent extracting hydrogen from whatever it is bonded to and the process creates more CO2 than burning petrochemicals. Storage is the least of our problems.

[Mikkel]

Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy carrier. Current refining technology means more energy is spent extracting hydrogen from whatever it is bonded to and the process creates more CO2 than burning petrochemicals. Storage is the least of our problems.

The first part is nitpicking. The energy source of your motorcycle is the fuel, i.e. the petrol in the tank. You still have to extract and refine this before your bike will run (well) on it.

Same goes for hydrogen, with the notable difference of course, that extracting the hydrogen (from water) uses more energy than we get in return by burning it. If it wasn't so we'd have found a way around the 1st law of thermodynamics (or at the very least managed to realise a loss-free system).
Nevertheless, hydrogen is a viable fuel - but storing hydrogen in a safe and compact manner is still a considerable obstacle in utilising it as a fuel.
Bear in mind that burning hydrogen only emits water and that it is the universe's most plentiful element. If solar-powered hydrogen extraction is realised it is a very viable energy source.

In Europe there is at the present time several hydrogen fuel stations along the main routes of the European motor-highway network.

[James Deuce]

The first part is nitpicking. The energy source of your motorcycle is the fuel, i.e. the petrol in the tank. You still have to extract and refine this before your bike will run (well) on it.

Same goes for hydrogen, with the notable difference of course, that extracting the hydrogen (from water) uses more energy than we get in return by burning it. If it wasn't so we'd have found a way around the 1st law of thermodynamics (or at the very least managed to realise a loss-free system).
Nevertheless, hydrogen is a viable fuel - but storing hydrogen in a safe and compact manner is still a considerable obstacle in utilising it as a fuel.
Bear in mind that burning hydrogen only emits water and that it is the universe's most plentiful element. If solar-powered hydrogen extraction is realised it is a very viable energy source.

In Europe there is at the present time several hydrogen fuel stations along the main routes of the European motor-highway network.

You've still quietly stepped past the fact that fuel Hydrogen is currently refined from hydrocarbons, not water. It may produce water when used as a fuel but the refining process creates more CO2 per km travelled than low octane petrol.

[robo555]

From a performance perspective electrical motors are a dream. All of the finicky electronics that goes towards traction control, fuel-efficiency and power will be much more efficient and are much easier to implement on an electric motor. As has been said, electric motors makes maximum torque from 0 RPM upwards are lighter and requires less maintenance. You shouldn't even need a gearbox...

Lighter, simpler, less maintenance, instant power engine. The power source maybe up for debate, but there's little doubt electric motor > combustion engine.

[Pwalo]

The problem is still the same. Petroleum is still the most efficient way to store energy for a motor vehicle. It's easy to carry and to convert into energy (and heat).

At this stage it is still more economical to use oil. We're not running out (or at least it can't be proven so), and the other technologies aren't robust enough to support mass use, yet.

I work in the Electricity industry and believe me it'd be great if people were reliant upon us for motor vehicle energy.

[motorbyclist]

right i'm a bit late but here goe:

what is the biggest problem faced by motorsport organisers today? Noise (and then green retards). Electric solves that, but does still give some noise to tell you how fast she's revving.

what is the biggest pollution source in city air? combustion engines.

what is often a significant and in many cases unneccessary source of noise in a city? combustion engines.

what is often a huge expense due to a mechanical failure of any one of MANY moving parts operating at high temperature? combustion engines.

how much money does our nation lose annually to vehicles burning petrol at idle on downhills, traffic lights, roadworks and traffic jams? shitloads; all entrely avoidable and partly negatable with electric vehicles and regenerative braking

ever tried to yell at that wanker cyclist/pedestrian/cager/bus driver/riding buddy something important but not been able to shout over his engine? personally I'd love to be able to audibly hurl abuse at people (friends or otherwise)

yes i'm talking all modes of transport, but i think electric is a smart move, oil shortage or not, carbon warming or otherwise.

sure, a lot of this applies more to overseas cities than here at home, but NZ is such a small portion of the market what we think and do means fuck all in the grand scheme of things.



furthermore, who said we needed to run on traditional chemical batteries?
to be fair, batteries will be fine for any city commuter, but are no good for a coro loop.
meanwhile, hydrogen fuel cells, while ultimately less efficient, dont die after 15000 cycles (the going rate of recent lithium) and can be filled up at a servo station. sure it's fucking dangerous stuff due to the pressure alone, but so is LPG or petrol which imho is much easier to be an idiot with and spill everywhere.

Then again, i hear the mazda rotary engines are perfectly set up to run on hydrogen fuel with only minor modifications to the injector and fuelling side of things; perhaps the future of motorsport as we know it is the hydrogen powered rotary?

If you ask me, electric IS the way of the future whether we like it or not. I'd be willing to start a career in it if NZ wasn't so crippling in that respect.

i mean, chinese scroters have taken hold like gorse in my neighbour's back paddock despite that they only last 300Km before breaking and being due for replacement!


petrol may still be dirt cheap to pull out of the ground compared to running a windfarm on a calm day, but i do not look forward to paying more than $2.20 a litre again to fund some middle eastern country to fight another middle eastern (or north american) country. fucking cunts at opec reduced the supply oil after it crashed to try to increase the price so as to maintain their bloated incomes, so i say "fuck 'em"




*begins picking on posts - read before you bleat*

My kids have battery powered toys. That is where they should stay. In the toybox.

care to explain why?

How much do they cost to maintain?
Do they break down at all?

well given they still use the same chassis and brakes, the (brushless) motors themselves have only one moving part operating at a temperature close to ambient, compared to atleast 50 parts in a modern four stroke IC some of which are hot enough to begin softening plus the required gearbox

and electric motors aren't affected too much by temperature, fuel quality, carby/injector issues....

Is electric really that much better though? Especially in new zealand which is nuclear power-less. Instead of burning petrol ourselves we pay the power company to pollute for us? .

to burn COAL to charge a lead acid battery (shit efficiency compared to lithium) is cleaner than petrol

plus all those poisonous nitrous oxides and carbon monoxides (and the rest) are all located at the plant, not in the cities.

then of course is NZ's decent go at uning clean energy sources...


it's the hippies that really ruin it, and the retards who think an electric vehicle has to look any different from a petrol one.

When you talk about electric vehicles, forget HP. They produce massive amounts of seamless torque. Electric race bikes will reinvent the 10m high, 100m long highside, because once they start matching current HP levels the amount of torque produced will be phenomenal.

HP will be replaced by wattage as a comparative output figure and torque will become the most important measure of outright performance.

some notes of interest:
combustion power rating is a PEAK output, attained only under certain conditions at a relatively innaccessible part of teh rev range,
whereas the electric power rating is a continuous load rating which is should have over most of it's engine speed range - ie they can always do more provided the wiring can handle the extra current (which means heat), and will always produce max power

Who the hell is talking about "gutless" or "no power"...... you have INSTANT torque!! No power bands, just instant power. They'll be WAAAAAAAY more efficient (I think combustion engines are MAXIMUM something like 14% efficient or some small amount like that, forgive me if I'm wrong).

Batteries are getting better and better REALLY quickly and solar panels are now a phenomenal 99% efficient in gethering energy from the sun. THAT is HUGE!

So yea, electric everything will be the way to go.

the maximum theoretical efficiency from an ideal four stroke stroke is 35%, and we IIRC yet to hit 20% in practice.
BUT, to actually extract oil and refine it requires much less energy than what is actually stored in the final product

electric is usually upwards of 90% efficient,
BUT the batteries are a weak link, along with power transmission to your home

in NZ a solar panel isn't going to ever see more than 700 watts per square metre. at noon. dead end for vehicles sorry.

The thing that really gets my goat is constant bleating about electric vehicles being "Green". They're not. It's simply pushing the pollution up the chain and battery technology is not the way to go. Vehicles need to be able to carry their own fuel with them. To my way of thinking, a vehicle that needs recharging is as much of a liability as an early 20th century IC engine with a total loss lubrication system and a hand pump to keep the oil flowing.

who gives a shit if it's green. they're quiet and don't belch out black (or blue) smoke.

buses are also meant to be green yet one of my biggest personal gripes with buses is how they emit 100dB as they go past while belching out black clouds of toxic fucking smoke. the silent buses are a godsend into auckland city - just pedestrians might want to actually start to look before crossing the road.

[Laxi]

Sadly one day there will be a lack of oil. But lets hope that by then we have learnt how to harvest the power from a small nuclear reactor so we can all blast around leaving traces of radiation in our path. .

or anti-matter so we can just wipe the world out in 1 go

Too much like a Buell then? :

ouch! nasty... but true

[jonbuoy]

When they start out performing combustion engines - sure. Electric motors have the potential to outperform a petrol engine in every way. Imagine being able to roll on the throttle from a standing start to 300km/h plus without changing gear in a blurr of completely linear power. Problem is always going to be storing the power.