did any of you see the dest buggers in town

[Holy Roller]

Different Tamaki right? There are 3 of them aren't there? 2 own the tourist bizzo and one fleeces his flock. Did you know that he owns a multi million dollar home in Maraetai and has surrounded himself with sycophants, living in houses immediately around him. Sounds vaguely familiar........The Berghof and Berchesgarten comes to mind...... BAD NEWS THIS GUY!

Much of his wealth has come from selling his share of the tourist business. (would be interesting to see their books for the last couple of years though) I knew him when he started here in Rotorua even spoke at our church, built what he has today on strict guidelines for leaders and church attendees. (why does the 10% principle get such a hard time:spudwhat: when in reality everything a Christian has is not theirs but is God's provision to do His will.)

People follow him because he offers hope and a way to live life. May be a bit extreem for most but thats what these people are looking for.
I personally don't buy into his style though I do agree with proactive representation for family values and rights.

[Lou Girardin]

Much of his wealth has come from selling his share of the tourist business. (would be interesting to see their books for the last couple of years though) I knew him when he started here in Rotorua even spoke at our church, built what he has today on strict guidelines for leaders and church attendees. (why does the 10% principle get such a hard time:spudwhat: when in reality everything a Christian has is not theirs but is God's provision to do His will.)

People follow him because he offers hope and a way to live life. May be a bit extreem for most but thats what these people are looking for.
I personally don't buy into his style though I do agree with proactive representation for family values and rights.

The sale of third share of a m/cycle tour business would not fund a flash house/boat/car/harley etc. Face it, he's a conman.

[Lou Girardin]

I've got no idea what you lot are on about, but i thought I'd add that the Harley was gifted from some evangelical friends in the states for some speaking he had done there...
anyway, back to the arguement...

That was the SECOND Harley.

[Coldkiwi]

Im hoping more for a waco, texas.

Call this a cat amoungst the pigeons comment, but does no one else feel the irony of sinful people wailing against a guy who runs a church that may have some dodgy practices?
I'm not saying that christians or any religious group are not sinful (I don't believe that for a second, and I should know because I am one!), but what makes people think they can call down all this judgement on someone like Brian Tamaki ('there'll be a special place in hell for people like him' is one memorable line from this site) and exempt themselves from the same standards?

Food for thought anyone?

[spudchucka]

I believe religion is nothing more than a primitive legal system with the ultimate policeman.

I don't think it is religion exactly, I think it is churches that use religion to control people. Churches are made up of people and people lust after power. There are countless examples all throughout history and today is hardly any different.

[spudchucka]

surrounded himself with sycophants, living in houses immediately around him. Sounds vaguely familiar........The Berghof and Berchesgarten comes to mind...... BAD NEWS THIS GUY!

For some reason this analogy seems even more relevant when its been suggested by someone called "Gasman".

[spudchucka]

Im hoping more for a waco, texas.

Or a Jonestown, Guyana?

[Paul in NZ]

I don't think it is religion exactly, I think it is churches that use religion to control people. Churches are made up of people and people lust after power. There are countless examples all throughout history and today is hardly any different.

Dunno. I think religion in it's basic form is a code of living. In the case of some religions, like Judaeisim, it has been a way of keeping a 'race' together to ensure their survival. In other cases it's a set of rules (like the 10 commandments) that can serve as a civil code.

God punishes those that break 'the laws'....

Churches are organised religion. They interpret the word of god for the un clever people which was required when most common folk could not read or had no access to books (a comparitively recent thing). Of course, people cannot help themselves and they start adding bits.... Then the fun starts (sigh)

I dunno - interesting thought for a tuesday afternoon...

Paul N

[Lias]

Not a huge fan of Brian Tamaki, or evangelical types in general, but I have to say I fully support his crusade against the homosexual law reform bill.

I'm agnostic, I'm definitly not a practising christian but even I know that marriage is a sacred RELIGIOUS ceremony between a man and a woman before their god(s), its one of the reasons I have no plans to ever marry. For Comrade Clark and her reform brigade to charge in and declare that faggots can be married is utterly wrong. Next she'll be telling us marriage between cockies and sheep is acceptable. The way shes going you'd think Mcgillicuddy serious won the election.

Sadly its very rare for legislation to be repealled in this country once in place, but one can only hope that labour loose the elections and the replacements reppeal this piece of shit law.

[Coldkiwi]

Churches are organised religion. They interpret the word of god for the un clever people which was required when most common folk could not read or had no access to books (a comparitively recent thing). Of course, people cannot help themselves and they start adding bits.... Then the fun starts (sigh)

I'm not trying to be a smart alec Paul, but how many churches have you been to, sat down in and given a fair run? To me 'religion' conjures up the trappings of very traditional ceremony based services where 'doing the trappings right' was much more important than the congregation connecting with the God they'd come to worship. By the way the word is being used here, i'm guessing others have a similar point of view (?)

I'm not going to challenge you to go to a particular church to open your eyes to the fact that most christian churches are not orientated like this anymore, but how about considering that you may not know every church's motivations intimately and that they may not all be out to brainwash you?

[jrandom]

I'm agnostic, I'm definitly not a practising christian but even I know that marriage is a sacred RELIGIOUS ceremony between a man and a woman before their god(s)

Agreed, depending on societal context, but...

For Comrade Clark and her reform brigade to charge in and declare that faggots can be married is utterly wrong.

We've previously (on the forum, here) covered the difference between the 'civil union' legislation, and marriage.

They're not the same thing.

Nobody's letting faggots get married.

So calm down.

[Coldkiwi]

interesting to read that there are non-christians out there that think the CU bill is pants (most seemed to stay quiet during the debate though?)

For Comrade Clark and her reform brigade to charge in and declare that faggots can be married is utterly wrong.

that said, your comments towards gays are pretty crass and unhelpful Liastz. Sort it out and gain some respect huh?

[jrandom]

what makes people think they can call down all this judgement on someone like Brian Tamaki ('there'll be a special place in hell for people like him' is one memorable line from this site) and exempt themselves from the same standards?

My opinion of Mr Tamaki is that he has two serious, visible flaws that disqualify him as a Christian leader: he accrues personal weath from his followers, and he is involved in politics.

I think most here that have a problem with him would agree that that's what it boils down to, when the pointless invective and vitriol is stripped away.

It's not a judgement; just informed commentary and personal opinion.

And certainly nobody should exempt themselves from the same standards they apply to others.

[Coldkiwi]

Nobody's letting faggots get married.

So calm down.

assuming we drop the derogatory terminology, hold on to your hat J, Labour will have a surprise in store for you next term!

Want to know the length of time its taken govt's overseas to bring in full blown gay marriage from the introduction of official condoning of gay relationships?
Holland: 3 years .
Massachussetts: 5 months
Ontario, British Columbia & Quebec : 3 years
The Justice Minister of Germany vows to get gay marriage legalised by the end of the German Summer. That would make the period 3 years

I somehow don't think Labours idea of a healthy society is quite what middle new zealand is expecting but I fully expect them to sneak a great deal under the radar before we all wake up and smell the rot. (mind you, people raising the alarm are getting called bigots, haters, 'fundamentalists forcing their ideals on to others' and all sorts of other colourful names so that'll probably keep a lot of concerned heads down for a long time yet)

[Coldkiwi]

My opinion of Mr Tamaki is that he has two serious, visible flaws that disqualify him as a Christian leader: he accrues personal weath from his followers, and he is involved in politics.


And certainly nobody should exempt themselves from the same standards they apply to others.

I know the papers and media have banged on about his personal fortune but has anyone seen the IRD's audit of his finances? Again, its very hard these days to be truly informed of the real facts despite the masses of 'information' we have at our finger tips.
For the record, he's not actually part of the Destiny Party but they're obviously closely aligned. And how would being involved in politics instantly make a church leader worthy of scorn and judgement anyway? Can you explain that flaw to a simple man such as myself? :spudwhat:

Glad we agree that people should use the same measuring stick but I sense thats not always happening.