White Ford Focus CCP792 in Wgtn

**Katman** · 23rd March 2009, 18:06

Originally Posted by kave

and have finally arrived at a point where you are defending the indefensible.

Not at all.

All I'm suggesting is that too many motorcyclists don't give a flying fuck how their actions may impact upon the poor motorcyclist that comes along behind them.

Collective responsibility? Fuckin' oath - it would be wonderful if we stopped for a minute to consider the welfare of each other.

**kave** · 23rd March 2009, 18:27

Originally Posted by Katman

All I'm suggesting is that too many motorcyclists don't give a flying fuck how their actions may impact upon the poor motorcyclist that comes along behind them.

Collective responsibility? Fuckin' oath.

When I have the misfortune to be driving a car do I have the reponsibility of behaving in an impeccable manner so car drivers are not poorly thought of or is there a collective responsibility purely because motorcyclists are a minority? If I was of Maori descent would I have a collective responsibility to behave in an appropriate manner so as not to bring my race into disrepute? If I was of the Islamic faith or if my sexual orientation was not heterosexual would I have to constantly behave as an ambassador of which ever minority I belong to?

I know that certain people will see any member of any minority as representative of the whole, but we should not use that as an excuse to expect a higher standard of behaviour for members of that minority. The pressure to behave is excessive and unfair, and the tyranny of expectations could easily wear thin relatively quickly. Instead of placing strictures on members of minorities, we should instead be encouraging a treatment of people equally. I know that there will always be people that judge unfairly, but I personally would rather fight predjudice than bow to it.

**Katman** · 23rd March 2009, 18:43

Originally Posted by kave

When I have the misfortune to be driving a car do I have the reponsibility of behaving in an impeccable manner so car drivers are not poorly thought of or is there a collective responsibility purely because motorcyclists are a minority?

So if you had the opportunity to (a) act in a manner that satisfied your own sense of fullfilment at the expense of others safety or (b) consider how an act of your own selfishness may affect the welfare of others, which would you choose?

**kave** · 23rd March 2009, 18:48

Originally Posted by Katman

So if you had the opportunity to (a) act in a manner that satisfied your own sense of fullfilment at the expense of others safety or (b) consider how an act of your own selfishness may affect the welfare of others, which would you choose?

I would choose (b), but if another rider/driver chose (a) I hope I wouldn't be judged by their actions.

**Deano** · 23rd March 2009, 18:49

Don't twist it Katman. You've dug a hole.

It's like suggesting that women have a right to hate all men cause some are rapists.

**Katman** · 23rd March 2009, 18:55

Originally Posted by kave

but if another rider/driver chose (a) I hope I wouldn't be judged by their actions.

Do you live in Utopia?

**Katman** · 23rd March 2009, 18:58

Originally Posted by Deano

It's like suggesting that women have a right to hate all men cause some are rapists.

No it's not, it's like suggesting a woman who has been raped has the right to hate all men.

Clearly wrong - but sadly, very often the case.

I have never said it's the right of car drivers to judge us all on the actions of an individual but rather that, sadly, it all too often happens.

**kave** · 23rd March 2009, 19:05

Originally Posted by Katman

Do you live in Utopia?

No, and I know some would judge me on how others have behaved. It's important to remember though, that someone attacking motorcyclists because they have had a bad run-in with a motorcyclist in the past is the same as someone beating the living shit out of Maoris because once they got mugged by someone with brown skin. Hating all Maoris because you once got mugged by someone who was Maori is not an excuse, it should not even be considered an extenuating circumstance. We should definitely not adjust our behaviour purely to pander to peoples prejudices.

**Katman** · 23rd March 2009, 19:08

Originally Posted by kave

No, and I know some would judge me on how others have behaved. It's important to remember though, that someone attacking motorcyclists because they have had a bad run-in with a motorcyclist in the past is the same as someone beating the living shit out of Maoris because once they got mugged by someone with brown skin. Hating all Maoris because you once got mugged by someone who was Maori is not an excuse, it should not even be considered an extenuating circumstance. We should definitely not adjust our behaviour purely to pander to peoples prejudices.

Open your fucking eyes.

I'm not saying it's right to judge others by someone else's actions.

I'm merely suggesting that by considering how our actions may impact upon other motorcyclists, that same impact may be able to be lessened.

**98tls** · 23rd March 2009, 19:19

Originally Posted by Katman

I'm not excusing his actions in the slightest but, you have to wonder whether he's lost wing mirrors in the past through no fault of his own.

Can see your point to a degree,on my way home through town the other day in the ute i see a heap of bikes approaching in the rear vision mirror,these fuckers were passing on the right,left etc in a single lane as for some reason unknown to me they just had to be right behind there mate and fuck any car that got between them

i can imagine most in cars were thinking wtf but being a motorcyclist and not to bothered really when the first 2 came up behind me i moved over to the left to let em go round me,simple i would have thought but oh no not simple enough for these cunts,the guy on the left broke left and tried to pass me on the inside while his mate went passed on the right

bad move as he hadnt reckoned on the parked cars on the side of the road which resulted in the big lock up for him

when he finally caught up with me i was turning into my street so as i did gave him the

as i turned to combat the waving fist which i knew was coming,Knob.If i wasnt a bike rider and saw that shit on a regular basis as some car drivers probably do then i can understand there lack of respect for us and i guess to a point can understand some of them dis-liking us big time.

**Katman** · 23rd March 2009, 19:25

Originally Posted by 98tls

If i wasnt a bike rider and saw that shit on a regular basis as some car drivers probably do then i can understand there lack of respect for us and i guess to a point can understand some of them dis-liking us big time.

And if you'd lost your wing mirror in the process of the situation you've just described would I be right in imagining you'd be even more pissed off?

**mattian** · 23rd March 2009, 19:27

"fuck me, I'm all out of enemies"
having said that! ..... got to give you proper respect Str8 Jacket for not loosing your rag in the moment and doing something to turn a bad situation even worse. You did the right thing by keeping cool enough to get the particulars of this gutter trash. Please keep us posted as to what happens.

**kave** · 23rd March 2009, 19:27

Originally Posted by Katman

Open your fucking eyes.

I'm merely suggesting that by considering how our actions may impact upon other motorcyclists, that same impact may be able to be lessened.

And I'm merely replying that in the same way that I have no desire to be treated as an ambassador for blue eyed men or for people who enjoy whisky, nor do I wish to be treated as an ambassador for motorcyclists. I have had people abuse me because I have lane split to the front of a queue, should I discontinue lane-splitting because the annoyance it causes an ill-educated few may come back to haunt another motorcyclist? I have been abused for (perfectly legally) using bus lanes, should I ignore the advantages of riding a motorcycle, and instead behave as if I was in a car so as not to annoy people? You may choose to do so if you wish, but I certainly wont.

When I ride my safety, the safety of those around me, and my enjoyment is all I worry about (in that order, unless I have a pillion, and then they come first). I am not concerned in the slightest as to how my riding will affect someones perception of motorcyclists, because if I pander to that sort of mindset I feel that I am legitimising it. You may ride in a bland manner so as to upset the fewest number of people possible, you may even live your life as inoffensively as possible, and that is up to you. I prefer to maximise the fun I can get out of life, and if that upsets a few people then so be it.

**dipshit** · 23rd March 2009, 19:29

Originally Posted by Katman

Clearly wrong - but sadly, very often the case.

Just show them this classic as an example of people (even the perfect little angels in KB) judging a smaller minority group based on the actions of a few of its number...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d.php?p=953967